Reaction to seeing 5 ARMIES EE

[sauronsfinger]

Saw the EE of FIVE ARMIES tonight and loved it more than I had hoped I would. I can understand why it was "only 20 minutes" longer because much it -especially battle scenes seems to have layers added which make it a whole new scene without additional running time. An example of that is when Dain and his army come to Erebor. And much of the 20 minutes is ten seconds here and 20 seconds there and a scene which took 2 minutes now takes 3 minutes like Gandalf and the cage and his jailer on Dol Guldur.

There is humor and drama and emotion and its something for everybody. And if you want to find fault with a few over the top PJ' isms you have that too as we find out why a character was designed with the remnants of an axe in his forehead that some will like and some will cringe at.

A few things I was hoping for were missing such as the return to the troll cave before the return to Bag End at the end. That is the same.

We get the exchange between Radagast and Gandalf of the new staff..... but then its used for a semi-comic moment in the midst of battle.

All in all - like these things always do - its a much better movie with the additional material.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Glad you liked it SF! For the most part, the reaction at TORN has been mixed to positive. I look forward to seeing it, probably some time soon after the digital release next Tuesday.

[Frelga]

I'd like to know the why of the axe, but honestly, not enough to pay money to find out. I'm glad you thought it was an improvement overall.

[Necromancer Rising]

I finally managed to watch the Battle of the Five Armies Extended Edition.,To be honest, i already liked the Theatrical Edition but it was more obvious than never that a really heavy editing had affected the flow and the unfolding of the events, especially during the second half of the film. Fortunately, the Extended Edition came to fix most if not all of these problems. The battle itself was transformed into the the most complex,thrilling ,gruesome,brutal and imaginative battle of the Middle Earth series and definitely on par with the exquisite Battle of Helms Deep.(I dislike Pelennor Fields for numerous reasons). Dain,Iron Hill Dwarves,Elven Archers, Thranduil,Thorin and company, Battle Rams,Chariots,Different species of trolls,Beorn and the Eagles, strategy, all thrown in an unprecedented and crazy crescendo, directly derived from the wild and endless imagination of a lunatic and schizophrenic(in a good way) director.

New character moments are also present in this film, with a noteworthy addition of a scene between Bofur and Bilbo shortly before he is on his way to deliver the Arkenstone to Bard. A lovely moment, especially the part where Bilbo realises that Bofur urges him to stay away and get out from this madness. The Dwarven company has plenty of cooperation and dialogues incorporated into the new battle scenes and there is a nice tribute to the dish scene of the Unexpected Party in AUJ. Dain and Thranduil,especially the first, have many more great moments throughout the film.

Having seen half of the Appendices so far, my only wish is that they included the Acorn scene between Bilbo,Bard and Gandalf,mainly the first two. and have high hopes that someday,someone will incorporate it in the final cut, I did not miss the Beorn subplot at all or more Beorn in the battle for the plain reason that the battle itself feels so rich,detailed and complete that the extra 25 seconds of Beorn in action were more than enough. I also found the scene between Gandalf and Thranduil a bit unnecessary since every aspect of them is heavily implied on the last conversation between Thranduil and Legolas near the end.

A crystal clear 9+ out of 10 rating by me for the Extended Cut. It would be a clear 9.5 if the acorn scene was included in the cut. All in all, and taking into account the argument of not enough time for preparation, i think the result was outstanding even with some glaring flaws. But i want to point out again that the lack of Beorn is not one of the flaws i find with this particular film. Jackson managed to avoid the horrible soap operaish sequences with tons of melodrama (in a bad way) of the Return of the King's multiple endings and gave us a more mature,shorter but truly effective finale.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I disagree about the acorn scene. Though it sounds like a very nice scene, I think it would detract from both the previous scene between Bilbo and Thorin with the acorn, and more importantly, Thorin's deathbed words to Bilbo. I think they are right to conclude that Bilbo would have brought the acorn back to the Shire. Not everything that is a good scene should be included.

I particularly appreciated the reference to Ecthelion of Gondor, which I have not seen anyone else mention (though I haven't read all of the comments at that other place. Surprisingly, the new confrontation between the Elves and Dwarves didn't bother me like I thought it might when I first read about it; I think it actually works very well and unlike some, did not think that it lessened the impact of the Elves jumping over the Dwarves to get to the Orcs. On the contrary, the whole thing just flows so much better.

[Necromancer Rising]

I am not sure it would detract from the acorn scene between Bilbo and Thorin Voronwë. Undoubtedly, it was in Bilbo's mind to plant it in his garden back to Shire. But until then, Bilbo had not faced the brutality and gruesomeness of the war which definitely affected the people from Laketown who were not natural born warriors like the Elves or the Iron Hills Dwarves. Planting the acorn in Dale is a tribute to the most helpless race of the Battle of the Five Armies, the Laketowners and Bard who helped Bilbo and the Dwarven Company tremendously in the Desolation of Smaug. It also kind of gives or basically implies a resolution for Bard and the Men of Laketown. Now, that the war is over, that acorn will be the defining sign of rebuilding their lives without losing hope. Of course, the explanation given as to why they did not include it, is sufficient enough i would really love to have that scene inserted into the cut.

You are right about the reference to Ecthelion. It was a nice touch and i would strongly argue that the Dwarves vs Elves confrontation makes the impact of the Elves jumping over the Dwarves of a lesser effect. On the contrary, i believe that it reinforced the notion that when faced with the greater evil, even sworn enemies can collaborate to achieve their goal. It is one of my favourite new scenes. The whole battle flows extremely well after the EE cut and even the invasion of Alfrid is not an invasion anymore. It makes much more sense as the opposite of Bard.

[Dave_LF]

You "finally" managed to watch something that was released yesterday?

[Necromancer Rising]

Actually it was released 8 days ago in cinemas around US

[Dave_LF]

In that case, you "finally" managed to watch something that was released 8 days ago?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I finally did too.

It is enduring mystery why the chariot scene was not included in the theatrical release. It is literally the quintessential Peter Jackson scene.

[Beutlin]

Thank you for your review, Necromancer.

V, what are your overall thoughts on the extended edition? Does it visibly improve the film? If so, where in particular? How does it compare to the other extended Hobbit films? (mind you, I have not seen any of the extended Hobbit cuts).

[Sunsilver]

It is enduring mystery why the chariot scene was not included in the theatrical release. It is literally the quintessential Peter Jackson scene.

Voronwë, your review made me shudder. It brought back bad memories of the rabbit sleigh scene with the orcs and wargs in AUJ!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

What review? I didn't say anything at all, other than the general comment that you quoted. And the two scenes are not remotely comparable.

Beutlin, I think it greatly improves the film overall, mostly by making the battle itself make more sense and flow better. There are a couple of large additions, but also many small additions that just make it work much better. Also the funeral scene is much more emotionally satisfying.

I would say on a scale of 1-10 in judging how much the extended editions improved upon the theatrical editions, AUJ is probably a 3, DoS a 7, and BotFA an 11.

[Beutlin]

(...) AUJ is probably a 3, DoS a 7, and BotFA an 11.

Thanks for the info!

[Necromancer Rising]

I finally did too.

It is enduring mystery why the chariot scene was not included in the theatrical release. It is literally the quintessential Peter Jackson scene.

It was very gory and bloody, that is the only reason i guess. There are especially 2 scenes during the chariot that got me by surprise of how violent they were.

The most exciting and thrilling sequence of the Hobbit trilogy for my part. I watched it 3 times in a row to fully realise what exactly was happening. It literally derived from the imagination of a madman

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Yeah, but they could have removed the gore with little problem and left the scene largely intact. It really makes things make so much more sense (besides being an exciting and thrilling sequence).

[Necromancer Rising]

Thank you for your review, Necromancer.

V, what are your overall thoughts on the extended edition? Does it visibly improve the film? If so, where in particular? How does it compare to the other extended Hobbit films? (mind you, I have not seen any of the extended Hobbit cuts).

I believe that you can skip the extended cut of AUJ(unless you wanna see the "Down down down to Goblintown" song and more Bilbo in Rivendell) but you should definitely check on the DOS EE imo.

[Necromancer Rising]

Yeah, but they could have removed the gore with little problem and left the scene largely intact. It really makes things make so much more sense (besides being an exciting and thrilling sequence).

Very true Voronwë. They could have removed the gory part. But where did that chariot with 6 rams came from? They should also incorporate the Dwarven chariots in the introduction of Dain and the sequence Chariots vs Trolls i guess. But i really cannot come with a satisfying explanation of why they cut it. The link of the main battle with Ravenhill flowed so right and good with the inclusion of that sequence.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Well, it is now there forever more. This is one EE that will certainly completely replace the TE.

[Primula Baggins]

I haven't seen any of the EEs. I haven't even seen the TEs past the first. I own two EEs, but three-plus hours at home to do whatever I want just doesn't come up very often (ever?). They're both still in the plastic wrap—how pathetic is that?

But I will definitely do this as soon as I can. Sometime this year!