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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:52 pm 
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I will say if you're enough of a fan (which if you're posting here you probably are except for the few who thoroughly dislike the films), it's worth jumping through some of the good extended bits after you finish the RotK TE, especially the Faramir scenes - his character does really benefit from the EE. My ideal "semi-extended edition" would probably be 15-20 minutes longer than theatrical...


Last edited by kzer_za on Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:14 pm 
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Yes, I think that for my Daughter, a quick jump through the Asterisked scenes in the EE's between TE's will suffice.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:59 pm 
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Well, watched FotR EE with some friends and will be watching the other two soon.

Having read the book at least once and maybe twice since I last saw the trilogy, I had forgotten how much I love these movies, even if they're not perfect. Might post more thoughts later after TTT or RotK.


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:41 pm 
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I look forward to that, k_z.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:30 pm 
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Well, I finished it, all EEs.

So yeah, I love these movies. Of course I still have my complaints too. Generally I have always been more forgiving of many of the deviations than a lot of critics though, like I remember kicking a hornets' nest at a forum or two online by praising Osgiliath after TTT came out! That said, I think they do capture Tolkien's themes - imperfectly and not without compromising moments (I hatehatehate the beheading), but still in a real way. And when I talk to people who are fans of the films but never read the books or maybe just once, their understanding of the movies' themes approximates the books' pretty well. And as films setting aside adaptation, they mostly stand the test of time so far and will continue to I think.

My head says RotK is the weakest of the three, my heart says it's my favorite...it's complicated, because it has the most flaws but still moves me so deeply in a way very few movies do and the final act gets almost everything right. I really wish PJ had a little more restraint with its EE, because some of the smaller scenes are great and even important, but the worst RotK EE scenes are cutting room trash.

Speaking of RotK, I don't think PJ gets enough credit for having the courage to include the Grey Havens. Maybe because a lot of people who would care about the Havens miss the Scouring...but I'm sure Jackson had an idea how people would react to the "multiple endings" and he thought it was important enough to do it anyway. It would have been so easy to end at Aragorn's coronation. To me, that among other things shows he does understand Tolkien in important ways, even if imperfectly and sometimes clashing with his lower instincts.

I thought about writing up some more things on the characters, but don't really feel up to it right now. But I'll give a few thoughts on a certain duo: I would have cut back on some of his jokes especially in the extended PotD, but I think Rhys-Davies' Gimli actually works decently well if you look at him as a cross between LotRBook!Gimli and a HobbitBook!dwarf (and heck, even LotR has a lowbrow Bombur joke!). He is still overdone, but overall he doesn't bother me TOO much. My favorite Gimli scene in the book is when he gets excited over the Helms Deep tunnels and I wish they had included it, but "and they call it a MINE!" is actually in a similar spirit, kind of.

Bloom's Legolas, on the other hand, doesn't hold up well at all (the Mumak takedown is dumber than ever in an age of superhero movies) and is easily my least favorite performance in the main cast. Denethor is my least favorite large-scale deviation from the books.

Might rewatch the Hobbit trilogy next! Actually have never seen the EEs...


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:09 pm 
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Does anyone know a place that details exactly what is added in the EE? I found this site that lists them but I was hoping to find something describing the changes since for a lot of these (especially the ones marked "extended") I don't recall the difference.


https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/The_Lord_o ... ed_Edition

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:16 am 
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I have now also finished re-watching the trilogy. It's been just about 10 years since I last watched them! And I am very happy to report that I still absolutely adore the movies and can count them amongst my very, very, very favorite movies. :)

I might post a few more general thoughts on the movies later**, but in the spirit after this threads original question, I thought it would be interesting to review exactly what the EEs added to see if overall, I thought they were better then the originals. Below, I list my opinions on the movie's added scenes based on whether I, if given the ability to make my own version of the movies, would keep or lose the scenes.

It turns out it was tough to just get a list of the additions because in some cases they were extremely minor, sometimes literally one or two seconds. I did my best to list only the more significant ones to the best of my understanding and recollection.


**One overarching thought - I find Gimli utterly awful and he has nearly no redeeming moments. Unsurprisingly, I would cut every new Gimli line. (And several original ones....)

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Last edited by yovargas on Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:02 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:19 am 
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The Fellowship of the Ring EE
https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=765
https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=768


General thoughts - there are two big changes here. First is the changing of the intro to the Shire. Second is spending much more time in Lothlórien. The change to the Shire is much, much worse than the TE and losing several of the wonderful scenes between Frodo and Gandalf is a travesty. The several new scenes in Lothlórien are mostly quite lovely and add some really nice depth to the quest. Overall it's more good than bad but the lost intro really stings.


Prologue: One Ring to Rule them All... (Extended) - KEEP IT
Concerning Hobbits (Added) - LOSE IT
The Shire (Extended) - LOSE IT
Very Old Friends (Extended) - LOSE IT
A Long-expected Party (Extended) - LOSE IT
At the Green Dragon (Added) - KEEP IT
The Passing of the Elves (Added) - KEEP IT
The Nazgûl (Extended) - KEEP IT
The Midgewater Marshes (Added) - KEEP IT
Flight to the Ford (Extended) - LOSE IT
The Sword That Was Broken (Extended) - KEEP IT
The Council of Elrond (Extended) - LOSE IT
Gilraen's Memorial (Added) - KEEP IT
The Departure of the Fellowship (Added) - KEEP IT
The Ring Goes South (Extended) - KEEP IT
The Pass of Caradhras (Extended) - KEEP IT
Moria (Extended) - LOSE IT
A Journey in the Dark (Extended) (mithril) - LOSE IT
A Journey in the Dark (Extended) (Sméagol) - KEEP IT
Balin's Tomb (Extended) - LOSE IT
Lothlórien (Extended) - KEEP IT (most of it)
Caras Galadhon (Extended) - KEEP IT
The Mirror of Galadriel (Extended) - LOSE IT
Farewell to Lórien (Extended) - KEEP IT (most of it)
The Great River (Extended) - KEEP IT
The Breaking of the Fellowship (Extended)) - KEEP IT (most of it)
Boromir's Last Stand (Extended)) - KEEP IT (most of it)
The Departure of Boromir (Extended) - KEEP IT

KEEP IT - 19
LOSE IT - 10

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Last edited by yovargas on Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:19 am 
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The Two Towers EE
https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=1348
https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=1349


General thoughts - TTT has always been my favorite and IMO it has the best EE by a wide margin. It has by far the best added scene, the glorious flashback to Faramir and Boromir. Until a string of dud additions at the end, I like nearly every (non-Gimli) addition. The ending is definitely worse though unfortunately, with several unnecessary moments messing up the pace of the finales.


Elven Rope (Added) - KEEP IT
The Taming of Sméagol (Extended) - KEEP IT
The Uruk-hai (Extended) - KEEP IT
The Burning of the Westfold (Extended) - KEEP IT
Massacre at the Fords of Isen (Added) - KEEP IT
The Banishment of Éomer (Extended) - KEEP IT
Night Camp at Fangorn (Extended) - KEEP IT
The Passage of the Marshes (Extended) - KEEP IT
The White Rider (Extended) - LOSE IT
The Song of the Entwives (Added) - KEEP IT
The Heir of Númenor (Added) - KEEP IT
Ent Draft (Added) - LOSE IT
The King of the Golden Hall (Extended) - KEEP IT
The Funeral of Theodred (Added) - KEEP IT
Brego (Added) - KEEP IT
The Ring of Barahir (Added) - KEEP IT
A Daughter of Kings (Extended) - KEEP IT
Faramir Captures Frodo and Sam - KEEP IT
Dwarf Women (Extended) - KEEP IT
One of the Dúnedain (Added) - OH GOD PLEASE LOSE IT
The Evenstar (Extended) - KEEP IT
Helm's Deep (Extended) - LOSE IT
The Window on the West (Extended) (Faramir’s vision) - KEEP IT
Sons of the Steward (Added) - KEEP IT
The Forbidden Pool (Extended) - LOSE IT
The Glittering Caves (Extended) - KEEP IT
"Don't Be Hasty Master Meriadoc!" (Added) - LOSE IT
Last March of the Ents (Extended) (Huorns) - LOSE IT
Fangorn Comes to Helm's Deep (Added) - LOSE IT
The Final Tally (Added) - LOSE IT
Flotsam and Jetsam (Added) - LOSE IT
Farewell to Faramir (Added) - KEEP IT


KEEP IT - 22
LOSE IT - 10

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Last edited by yovargas on Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:20 am 
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The Return of the King EE
https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=1902
https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=1904

General thoughts - man, ROTK. What a wildly uneven ride. I do think that Voice of Saruman, while not a great scene, is really an essential end to that storyline. Also, both Merry and Pippin get some beautiful new moments that I do think add a lot. On the other hand, OH GOD THE PATHS OF THE DEAD IS SO AWFUL. Pretty much anything that adds one extra moment to the awful ghost storyline has to go. And most of the other new stuff ain't great either. Overall it's not worth it - gotta vote TE on this one.


The Finding of the Ring (Extended) - LOSE IT
The Road to Isengard (Extended) - LOSE IT
The Voice of Saruman (Added) - KEEP IT
Return to Edoras (Extended) - LOSE IT
Éowyn's Dream (Added) - LOSE IT
Merry Farewell to Pippin (Extended) - KEEP IT
Minas Tirith (Extended) - KEEP IT
The Decline of Gondor (Added) - KEEP IT
The Wizard's Pupil (Added) - KEEP IT
Peregrin of the Tower Guard (Added) - LOSE IT
Cross-roads of the Fallen King (Added) - KEEP IT
The Deep Breath Before the Plunge (Extended) - KEEP IT (minus the annoying coughing, ugh, why)
Sam's Warning (Added) - KEEP IT
The Fall of Osgiliath (Extended) - LOSE IT
Merry Offers His Service (Extended) - KEEP IT
The Paths of the Dead (Extended) - OH GOD PLEASE LOSE IT, LOSE IT NOW!!
The Siege of Gondor (Extended) - LOSE IT (mostly)
The Corsairs of Umbar (Added) - LOSE IT
Merry's Simple Courage (Added) - KEEP IT
The Tomb of the Stewards (Extended) - LOSE IT
The Witch-King's Hour (Added) - LOSE IT
The Pyre of Denethor (Extended) - LOSE IT
Victory at Minas Tirith (Extended) - LOSE IT
Pippin Looks After Merry (Added) - KEEP IT
The Tower of Cirith Ungol (Extended) - LOSE IT
The Battle of the Pelennor Fields - LOSE IT
The Houses of Healing (Added) - LOSE IT
The Last Debate (Extended) - KEEP IT
Aragorn Masters the palantír (Added) - KEEP IT
The Land of Shadow (Added) - LOSE IT
The Mouth of Sauron (Added) - LOSE IT
Mount Doom (Extended) - LOSE IT


KEEP IT - 13
LOSE IT - 19

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Last edited by yovargas on Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:49 am 
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For most casual and first-time viewers, I would say take the RotK TE. As a big fan of both the movies and books...well, after my rewatch at the end of the day I probably still settle on the EE for myself despite my grumbling, though I would need to see the TE again to be sure.

One weakness of RotK is that Gondor is kind of underdeveloped, and while the EE doesn't entirely fix this it does meaningfully help. You have obvious things like Faramir getting some very good extra scenes and Gandalf speaking on the decline of Gondor (PJ's favorite scene in the movie IIRC). But even little things like the extra rams at Minas Tirith are nice to show Gondorian soldiers fighting more competently, and even Denethor is slightly improved (though nowhere near enough). Plus Éomer's small extended additions are cumulatively just enough to push him from a peripheral character into an almost-major one.

I don't mind the WK breaking Gandalf's staff. Voice of Saruman is awkward in some ways and I don't like the death itself, but Hill and Lee's dialog is so good as to redeem the scene I think. As bad as the Paths of the Dead and drinking game and the decapitation are, well, I can take the good with the bad.

My previous statements on Gimli should be of course thoroughly qualified...I don't think turning up his comic side was entirely illegitimate (he does have funny moments in the book - like he's the one who wolfs down the Lembas instead of Pippin!) and some of the jokes work for me. But his worst moments like "squirrel droppings" and the Paths of the Dead are of course awful low points in the trilogy.


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:10 pm 
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Quote:
I don't think turning up his comic side was entirely illegitimate (he does have funny moments in the book - like he's the one who wolfs down the Lembas instead of Pippin!) and some of the jokes work for me.


I'm not opposed to the idea of having him be comic relief, I'm opposed to none of his jokes being funny. :P

I also really dislike that, in order to make him the comic relief character, they generally make him seem buffonish, to the point where he is never remotely convincing as a badass warrior equal to Legolas. The idea that movie Gimli could kill even a tenth of the orcs that Leggy does is totally :roll: .

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Hey yov, you forgot to vote on "Aragorn Masters the palantír" (an odd title since the scene sorta shows the opposite).


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:33 pm 
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Fixed!

(A lot of the scenes I could take or leave. I would keep that one but it's borderline.)

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:43 pm 
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Now you just have to update your "keep it" total too. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:52 pm 
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At least glad to see someone is paying attention. :P

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Last edited by yovargas on Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:58 pm 
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I'm feeling inspired to re-watch these myself now, but I don't know when I'll find the time...


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:17 pm 
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Well, I had pretty much decided to go TE with my daughter, so that suits me! Thanks yov!

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:41 pm 
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Would love to hear what she thinks. :)

I watched it with LW who is not familiar with the books but he was crying during Mt Doom alongside me so whatever the complaints (and they are many), mission accomplished. :love:

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Rings
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:28 pm 
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I fully agree with you about the Paths of the Dead; undoubtedly the worst sequence in all 6 M-e films, theatrical or extended. I haven't watched the LOTR films in a while so I can't comment too specifically on most of your other stuff, though there are some that I (not surprisingly) disagree with you about.

I'm curious to hear why you would do it way with the Houses of the Healing?

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