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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:57 pm 
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I was watching something last night and they said (greatly paraphrasing) that Trump & Co. aren't worried about convincing anyone /winning anyone over (they have no defense, the evidence is overwhelming) they are just concerned with creating sound-bites for their FOX base to keep them in the bubble.

*edited to add: it really speaks to the dangerous nature of propaganda and disinformation and the damage it can do.

**elengil, I hope you are fairing better than I am. :hug:

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:10 pm 
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RoseMorninStar wrote:
**elengil, I hope you are fairing better than I am. :hug:


No, I currently 'mute' my sister on Facebook and avoid family dinners in general. I can't avoid my uncle (he lives in my house, it's a bit hard), but I can at least generally avoid any political talk.

Though my sister is a rabid anti-vaxer, too. I think she was even at one point questioning the moon landings. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she started believing the world was flat.

I guess I shouldn't say my 'whole' family. I have no idea what my dad thinks of any of this because my dad, bless him, doesn't say a damn word. I love my dad. :love:

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:18 pm 
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My parents wind themselves up listening to NPR. It's not fun having my parents wound up, but at least we're all working with the same data set.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:26 pm 
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RoseMorninStar wrote:
Yov, I'm basing it on my mom, who only watches FOX news and can't believe that everyone doesn't think Trump is SO wonderful and is just persecuted by the evil democrats.

But not all 42% are your mom. Yov's right, it's weird that no one's changed their mind over this. The implication is that everyone who's persuadable was already persuaded, and 42% were left. That's bodes extremely poor for the future, regardless of what happens with this president.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:50 pm 
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I predicted that by the time the impeachment articles were issued, Trump's average approval rating would dip back below 40%. I'm going to stand by that, at least at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:40 pm 
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elengil wrote:
RoseMorninStar wrote:
**elengil, I hope you are fairing better than I am. :hug:


No, I currently 'mute' my sister on Facebook and avoid family dinners in general. I can't avoid my uncle (he lives in my house, it's a bit hard), but I can at least generally avoid any political talk.

Though my sister is a rabid anti-vaxer, too. I think she was even at one point questioning the moon landings. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she started believing the world was flat.

I guess I shouldn't say my 'whole' family. I have no idea what my dad thinks of any of this because my dad, bless him, doesn't say a damn word. I love my dad. :love:
*sigh* My mother has told me she hopes I am murdered by Mexicans, so.. yeah, it's been tough.


I came across this article: 'Bad Thinkers' last night. It didn't make me feel better about the future/persuade-ability of those who are taken in my conspiracy theories.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:51 pm 
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RoseMorninStar wrote:
*sigh* My mother has told me she hopes I am murdered by Mexicans, so.. yeah, it's been tough.


:shock: Well, I flat refuse to discuss politics with my family so, sadly, they assume I think as they do. Even if my mom knew, she certainly wouldn't be wishing harm on me for it, she'd just tell me how wrong I was.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:57 pm 
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Rose, I knew it was bad, but I didn't know it was that bad. I'm really sorry. That is horrible. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:01 pm 
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Thanks, it has been rough. We even mostly avoid politics & religion, but her anger (which is riled up by Trump/FOX news) is just devouring her and making her a very angry person. Rage is probably the right word. She is enraged. Always. I got some counseling to gain some coping skills, but there are no easy answers.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:06 pm 
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I.... hope you don't get killed by anyone of any ethnicity.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:38 pm 
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:hug:

Meanwhile, the House released the transcripts of two of the most important witnesses today, Fiona Hill and Col. Vindman. There is a ton of new revelations beyond what was previously revealed about their testimony, but this is probably the most significant:

White House Officials Testify Quid Pro Quo Was Coordinated With Mulvaney

And speaking of potentially important witnesses, John Bolton's attorney, Charles Cooper, raised the stakes by sending a letter to the House investigators saying that Bolton had information about "many relevant meetings and conversations that have not yet been discussed in the testimonies thus far" but won't testify unless a court says that he can. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 pm 
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yovargas wrote:
I.... hope you don't get killed by anyone of any ethnicity.
Me too! I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I am hoping Voronwë is right and people check out the hearings/evidence.
I also think the stipulation by Bolton is weird because he's no longer an employee of the WH so he shouldn't be bound to restrictions by the WH/Trump.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:25 pm 
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From Col. Vindman:

Lt. Col Alexander Vindman said it “doesn’t take a rocket scientist” to understand why Trump would want to damage his political opponent, Joe Biden.

“Do you think the President was trying to get the Ukrainian Government to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden?” someone asked.

“Look … Counsel … It’s all in the future,” Vindman said. “I guess, look, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see where the gain would be for the President in investigating the son of a political opponent.”



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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:05 am 
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RoseMorninStar wrote:
I also think the stipulation by Bolton is weird because he's no longer an employee of the WH so he shouldn't be bound to restrictions by the WH/Trump.

I think Bolton's trying to cover his @ss, though whether from a real threat or an imagined one is not clear to me. Seems like if he really has a story he wants to tell, he'd do what other people have done: show up.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:16 pm 
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Mulvaney has filed a motion to join Kupperman's lawsuit, saying that the same issues apply to him since he is a close advisor to the President and has been subpoenaed to testify but ordered not to.

Mulvaney, of course, is a current advisor whereas Kupperman and Bolton are former advisors, but the argument is that either was they should be prevented from revealing communications with the President to protect sensitive policy discussions. Of course the alternative argument is that they should be forced to reveal discussions about conduct that is illegal or otherwise impeachable offenses.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:19 pm 
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RoseMorninStar wrote:
Thanks, it has been rough. We even mostly avoid politics & religion, but her anger (which is riled up by Trump/FOX news) is just devouring her and making her a very angry person. Rage is probably the right word. She is enraged. Always. I got some counseling to gain some coping skills, but there are no easy answers.


That is awful. What you described is their business model - the Fox News opinion section lives off of stoking anger by any means necessary, which by its nature includes lies. Make sure the audience comes back for another hit or outrage or just plain old rage so the advertising dollars keep coming in. There's a demand for it so it will be delivered.

It has a very real negative effect on the lives of the listeners who now walk around consumed by seething anger and feelings of being wronged and persecuted and that the country is going to hell. Basically, all that is the very opposite of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Instead of being free, those who believe are caught in a prison of anger and fear. Instead of pursuing happiness, they are afraid that the sky is falling, the baddies are coming, life is awful, the US is descending into third-world levels of everything thanks to those darn liberals. Somehow all this is true while strolling along perfectly manicured sidewalks in pristine neighborhoods, driving on smooth roads in large, luxurious vehicles, not worrying about the next meal, having money in the bank, etc etc.

It is miserable, but in a free country you are free to give away your freedom for lies and misery, and others are free to sell it to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:25 pm 
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Griffy, you've said it better than I could but those are my thoughts as well.

Not that it's a comfort, but I'm not alone. Counseling for this division and rage has gone way up in the last couple of years. It's seriously tearing families apart. The impeachment process (and the stick-our-heads-in-the-sand denial/support Trump (who in turn seems to be supporting Russia) at any cost to our nation isn't helping.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:16 am 
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Griffy, your posts are so bang on the money! Yes, they want to stoke a climate of fear.

Most of my friends are liberals, but as I've mentioned before, there's this guy whose small group I used to attend back when I was in Bradford. They are a very nice couple, but he's not well educated, and just doesn't know how to sift through right-wing propaganda. I correct him when I can, and he is a reasonable guy, and doesn't take offence.

Yesterday, he posted on FB an article from a right-wing news site that said Iran had executed a rape victim who had shot and killed 3 of her attackers. This supposedly happened in August of this year.

I did a fairly extensive check of the net, and could find no proof of this. But, I DID find that Iran considers rape a crime punishable by death. Yes, I am sure the application of that law is heavily weighted in favour of the men in the population. I'm not blind when it comes to what goes on in Islamic countries governed by Sharia law.

I then read the article he'd linked to, including the comments. One of the posters was calling for the extinction of ALL Muslims. Another said 'Islam is a culture of barbaric pigs.'

Now, the people supporting this website are probably mostly right-wing Christians. It just made me shudder! How is this ANY DIFFERENT than some of the things Nazis said about the Jews??

I'm sure if he'd read the comments, he would have been appalled!

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:11 am 
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Are you going to be able to sleep tonight V?

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