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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:47 pm 
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They allowed this terrorist full reign and this is where it's gotten us.

They don't seem to realize (or care) that this is the position they've put democrats in for a long time now.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:52 pm 
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Edit: I got rolled. Hopefully no one noticed. :whistle:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:57 pm 
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Good god, does it count as a conspiracy yet??

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 86678.html

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"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:38 pm 
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Image

"HELLO THERE I WOULD JUST LIKE TO LOUDLY VERBALIZE OUR AGREEMENT TO ENTER INTO THIS CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY, PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS."

That's a paraphrase of a conversation in this video filmed by some of the insurrectionists inside the Capitol in which they talked about the layout of the building and their further plans. I'll admit that this particular group doesn't seem terribly well organized.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm 
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I saw this and thought it was my text replacer at work again, but nope, this time that's actually what it said :)

Spoiler: show
Attachment:
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floridaman.png [ 362.56 KiB | Viewed 232 times ]


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:16 pm 
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Listening to the "debate" about the impeachment and I think there is very little hope for any real future here. For some, there is no ability to agree on reality

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The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:32 pm 
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Michael McCaul, a Republican Congressman from Texas, says that he's voting against impeachment, even though he believes Trump may have committed impeachable crimes, because the House hasn't heard from any witnesses.

First, they are all witnesses.

Second, a year ago, the Senate Republicans prevented witness testimony in Trump's first impeachment trial, and McCaul and the others now using this excuse didn't criticize that decision.

Third, we're back to the conundrum I keep bringing up: just because there is no perfect method to remove a dangerous President quickly doesn't absolve you of your duty to remove him quickly using second-best methods.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:40 pm 
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Another Republican, Chip Roy, also said that he believed that the President committed an impeachable offense but that he was voting against impeachment because the articles of impeachment were "flawed and unsupportable" because impeaching Trump over his rhetoric could pose a danger to free speech for lawmakers. :roll:

The count of Republicans voting in favor of impeachment is currently 9. Which, of course, is 9 more than voted in favor of impeachment last time.

ETA: The final count was ten.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:06 pm 
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I'm not in a position where I can do much to financially assist political candidates. I don't think I ever donated to a candidate before 2012, and made very few donations before 2020, when, not having spent any money on entertainment during the year, I did contribute a little to about 20 Democratic candidates (most of whom lost).

The first and only Republican I've ever donated to was Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan, after he came out in favor of impeaching Donald Trump in the spring of 2019 based on Trump's conduct in the Russia scandal. (Amash later became an Independent and as of this month is no longer in Congress.)

I didn't donate to Mitt Romney when he became the first senator ever to vote to convict a president from his own party early in 2020, because he was still five years away from reelection, but I did call his office and left a message thanking him.

Yesterday I decided to make a small donation, just $10, to every Republican House member who voted to impeach.

Looks like I'm going to be shelling out $100.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:12 pm 
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Thank you, N.E.B.

I know you are younger than I am, but you certainly were of age during the Iraq war. Did you ever think that you would be donating to a daughter of Dick Cheney?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:08 am 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Thank you, N.E.B.

I know you are younger than I am, but you certainly were of age during the Iraq war. Did you ever think that you would be donating to a daughter of Dick Cheney?

Not in my wildest dreams.

For reference, here's today's list:

Liz Cheney (WY)
Adam Kinzinger (IL)
Anthony Gonzalez (OH)
Jaime Herrera Beutler (WA)
Peter Meijer (MI)
Fred Upton (MI)
Tom Rice (SC)
John Katko (NY)
Dan Newhouse (WA)
David Valadao (CA)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:23 am 
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The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:08 am 
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One of the police officers from the capitol riots is going to lose an eye. :(

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:21 am 
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:(

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:29 am 
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The Guardian obtained audio recordings and logs of a group of 30-40 insurrectionists in the Capitol communicating on a walkie-talkie app.

The group talks about how they are "sticking to the plan," how the unfolding events are "everything we trained for," and how they will be "executing a citizen's arrest," apparently of one or more lawmakers, for "acts of treason."

I'd say that planning and training and the rest makes it even more clear that these aren't just protesters who got a little too enthusiastic.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:35 pm 
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N.E. Brigand wrote:
I'd say that planning and training and the rest makes it even more clear that these aren't just protesters who got a little too enthusiastic.


Yep. Even while I will still agree that many or perhaps even most of the crowd as a whole were just there to be there, there was absolutely a contingent that had very specific, chilling goals, and they knew what they were doing and clearly had training and maybe even help from inside.

_________________
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:02 pm 
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It's worth emphasizing that late in 2008 (I think), Donald Trump criticized Nancy Pelosi for not having impeached George W. Bush (for starting the Iraq War on a false pretext).

The point being: most Congressional Democrats don't take impeachment lightly. They are if anything too cautious. They didn't even impeach Trump himself after Mueller's report made it clear that he had repeatedly obstructed his investigation into whether Trump conspired with a foreign power.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:16 pm 
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From FP (Foreign Policy) news, an interview with Rex Tillerson: ‘We’re in a Worse Place Today Than We Were Before He Came In’
If you can't read it due to a paywall, he says some of the same things here.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:27 pm 
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So last Wednesday's attack on the Capitol may not have been only an incident of *domestic* terrorism:

Large bitcoin payments to right-wing activists a month before Capitol riot linked to foreign account.

It was about $500,000 distributed among 22 recipients from an unidentified French account.

I am reminded of Sarah Kendzior's characterization of the Trump administration: "This is a transnational crime syndicate masquerading as a government."

- - - - - - - - - -

But as for the obvious domestic angle:

Why DHS Failed To Warn The Country About Jan. 6.

Normally federal law enforcement agencies issue a "joint intelligence briefing" before any major event. This happens before every Super Bowl. It happened before the 2017 right-wing protest in Charlottesville, Virginia in which a man killed a woman by driving into a crowd. But it didn't happen before last Wednesday.

The Trump administration has (1) pushed DHS to not treat far-right terrorism as a threat and (2) dismantled parts of the agency that used to handle domestic threats. (Some work was shifted to the FBI, but the FBI's Washington office in particular recently received a failing grade in an internal evaluation of its work on this issue.)

One former DHS official says, "Nobody wanted to write a formal intelligence report about this, in part out of fear that such a report would be very poorly received by the MAGA folks within DHS."

(A commenter online writes, "I really, really hope they haven't been ignoring suspicious fertilizer purchases.")


Last edited by N.E. Brigand on Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:31 pm 
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I'm pretty sure nothing will shock me anymore.

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The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF


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