Gun Control Debate

[RoseMorninStar]

[Maria]

If you have guns in the house, the safest thing to do is teach the kids everything about them.
Leave them ignorant and they'll likely do something stupid with them some day.

And calling a 17 year old a child is ridiculous. I took marksmanship classes in college at 18 years old.

[Frelga]

I agree, Maria. As long as access to guns is controlled at all times and safety is emphasized, I don't see a problem with a teenager participating in target shooting as a sport. (We were required to pass target shooting twice a year in high school)

That thing about running with three types of guns, on the other hand, doesn't sound sensible at all.

[yovargas]

I have a friend that works at a local community college's writing center. Students working on papers are able to take their papers to him at the center to get constructive feedback on their writing. He just texted me this:

Real life claim in student essay in which they are arguing that gun control laws are ineffective and dangerous : Hitler disarmed the Jews and as a result, the Holocaust happened. What the f*** do I even say to that??????

My initial response was to try and rationally point out the massively glaring flaws in that argument, but then I quickly got angry at the idea of being asked to pretend this is a legitimate argument and instead proposed yelling obscenities at this student. Maybe not the most constructive response but it has better results for my sanity.

[River]

"Please provide data to substantiate these assertions," is the standard response.

[Frelga]

It's the kind of a statement that makes you spin in a circle because you don't even know where to start. But I agree with River.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

But there is always data that can substantiate any assertion, no matter how outside the bounds of reason. It may not be accurate data, but one person's hard science is another person's fake news.

[River]

It may not be accurate data, but one person's hard science is another person's fake news.

No. Stop. This is a false equivalence. Fake news is intentional deception. People can try to pass fake news off as hard science, or bend scientific findings to suit their lies, or try to pass off poorly constructed or disproven studies and theories as valid because deceivers do those things but, unless research misconduct is involved, hard science itself isn't fake news (which isn't to say findings are never artifactual and theories are never wrong and experiments are always well-designed and perfectly controlled, only that there's a difference between being wrong and being a liar).

[Voronwë the Faithful]

That is true in the world of science (or should be; even there it isn't always) but in the world of policy-making it is almost totally not true, sadly.

[Inanna]

What V means is that finding data to back an assertion is not difficult, as you can find stupid data and use that too.

(Looks at forum. #%~£¥!? Shit)

[River]

What V means is that finding data to back an assertion is not difficult, as you can find stupid data and use that too.

(Looks at forum. #%~£¥!? Shit)

True. But if you provide stupid data, you'll get feedback about it.

We're getting kind of a-field from my pithy suggestion to yov, though. The polite phrase I learned for "WTF is this BS?" is "Please provide data to back your assertion," or "Please cite your source for this statement," or something along those lines. Smart students soil their pants*, stammer, and slink off to fix it. Stupid ones try to argue, or cherry-pick some stupid data, and ultimately fail out of the program. And the ones who've got their heads so far up they see daylight through their mouth think they failed out because their professors were jealous of their brilliance or something.

*I didn't; instead I just got a little nauseated

[Lalaith]

I agree with Maria and Frelga about guns and kids. If you have guns in the home, the best thing to do is to teach them to use them responsibly. My girls have handled guns since they were young teens. Competitive shooting and/or hunting may seem odd to people in other countries (or other circles), but it's pretty normal around here. (Of course, you all know I favor sensible gun control, so don't forget that.)

So my best friend (J's) brother is on the cover of Time magazine.

http://time.com/guns-in-america/?utm_ca ... e=time.com

It's kind of difficult to point him out in the mural in a forum like this; however, you can click on the search bar to find him. It's Thomas Lake. You all may recall that he was the St. Louis police sergeant who was shot in the face 2 years ago. It's a powerful story. (I haven't listened to any of the others yet.)

[RoseMorninStar]

Real life claim in student essay in which they are arguing that gun control laws are ineffective and dangerous : Hitler disarmed the Jews and as a result, the Holocaust happened. What the f*** do I even say to that??????

Yov, tell your friend there are a lot of fact checking articles for that phrase on the internet. There is something on politifact (Ben Carson has made similar statements) and there is this article from the New York Times, and others.

There is a time & place for weapons; guns, swords, knives, I suppose bombs, grenades (ugh...) but the sheer volume, lethal capability, and availability (and entitled attitudes) have reached a pathetic level that does not seem sustainable.

[RoseMorninStar]

What makes the AR-15 style rifle the weapon of choice for mass shooters? From 60 Minutes (Nov. 4 2018)

There is also the NRA's comment to physicians to 'Stay in their lane' and the resulting backlash 'This is my lane'.

[elengil]

What makes the AR-15 style rifle the weapon of choice for mass shooters? From 60 Minutes (Nov. 4 2018)

There is also the NRA's comment to physicians to 'Stay in their lane' and the resulting backlash 'This is my lane'.

Here's another one - the 'good guy with a gun' is the one who got shot by police.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46187460

[Frelga]

Oh, dear lord.

[RoseMorninStar]

Here's another one - the 'good guy with a gun' is the one who got shot by police.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46187460

[Sunsilver]

Nice to see a hopeful editorial on this subject!

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... XBik6pSrI8

[RoseMorninStar]

The second striking thing about the Thousand Oaks massacre was the presence of survivors of that Las Vegas shooting. One Las Vegas survivor died in Thousand Oaks. What are the odds?

What are the odds indeed. Sadly, the odds are increasing.

[Frelga]

A hospital this time. A doctor shot by her ex, who also killed two other people.