Escaping the Echo Chamber

[Inanna]

Didn’t we have this discussion last Xmas??

[RoseMorninStar]

Yes. And not a peep about the 'War on Christmas' since we have such a pious Republican in the WH.

[elengil]

Didn’t we have this discussion last Xmas??

Yeup.

[elengil]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/16/politics ... index.html

So, I'm actually going to disagree with this. I don't think women are naturally or inherently better leaders than men. Rather, I think it's the lack of women representation at all levels that hinders male-driven leadership, but that the opposite would not necessarily be better.

Think of it as trying to operate machinery with only one hand, when it was really built for two hands. Sure, you may be able to do it, but it would be inefficient, and things wouldn't work right. Now add your other hand - it isn't that the other hand was better at operating the machinery, it's that both hands were required to operate the machinery! Just switching which hand isn't the solution, it's using both.

World leadership suffers not because it's run by men, but because it ignores what women bring to the table, what they focus on, what they know that men don't. It's the other half. Not the niche, not the 'women's lib' - literally the other half of the global population whose needs are not always the same as men's needs, whose focuses are not always the same as men's focuses, whose experience is not the same as men's experience.

We suffer when we ignore half of the population.

So I don't think it's that women are better leaders, I think women are just a necessary part of a functioning leadership that has been too long been denied.

[yovargas]

Hm. I don't object to the idea that in a very, very, very broad way men and women as a group may have some moderately different skill sets. But a big flat blanket statement saying women are better leaders? Nope. I think that's pretty silly, and honestly as well-intentioned as it surely is I think it probably does more harm than help.

[River]

Yes. And not a peep about the 'War on Christmas' since we have such a pious Republican in the WH.

That energy got diverted towards an alleged War on Thanksgiving, which disappeared into the usual turkey-induced food coma.

Though I admit, I kind of miss the annual pointless snit about Starbucks cups.

[RoseMorninStar]

Yes. And not a peep about the 'War on Christmas' since we have such a pious Republican in the WH.

That energy got diverted towards an alleged War on Thanksgiving, which disappeared into the usual turkey-induced food coma.

Though I admit, I kind of miss the annual pointless snit about Starbucks cups.

Oh yeah.. I do recall a bit of pontification about Thanksgiving. And the Starbucks cup.. ugh.. let's worship at the altar of the trivial and inane because faith is so weak we are threatened by a disposable coffee cup!

elengil, I like your analogy and I agree with it, however, I do think there is a point to made. (Some) women may make (slightly) better leaders in some cases just as any minority* who has lived in a society where their voice has not been heard and their viewpoint not taken into consideration. Don't we have a thread about toxic masculinity? I think we do..and that certainly comes into play with world leaders. Mixing that up might off-set that toxic posturing. Of course, other toxic power-plays could and would likely take its place. I think Obama has had a lot of good strong-minded women in his life (good for him!) but (some) women- have their own toxic moves or moves that have traditionally been attributed to women. Trump, for example, displays classic 'mean-girl' bullying behavior.

* minority in terms of power, not necessarily in number.

[elengil]

elengil, I like your analogy and I agree with it, however, I do think there is a point to made. (Some) women may make (slightly) better leaders in some cases just as any minority* who has lived in a society where their voice has not been heard and their viewpoint not taken into consideration. Don't we have a thread about toxic masculinity? I think we do..and that certainly comes into play with world leaders. Mixing that up might off-set that toxic posturing

Oh, don't mistake me, I absolutely believe that women and minorities across the board need to be represented, and not just 'one token' representation, but actual proportionate representation at all levels of leadership, government, and industry.

I just disagree that women are 'better at leading' than men. The lack of women leading (or even being consulted!) is absolutely the cause of many social ills that affect both women and men, not the least of which is to discount, downplay, and even ignore that women even exist, let alone account for their needs, let alone account for the needs of other minorities, or the elderly, or children! I want to see equal and proportional representation in leadership, not simply replace one group with the other. That's all.

[RoseMorninStar]

This topic always brings Ruth Bader Ginsburg to mind. She once said,

People ask me sometimes when, --when do you think it will be enough? When will there be enough women on the court? And my answer is when there are nine.

Not to put words in the mouth of the Notorious RBG, but I think her point isn't that she thinks women are necessarily better, but that currently men (and further.. white men) think nothing of monopolizing all of the power and do not understand or have ever had to come to terms with the power disparity. They do not, can not fully understand the other side of the equation. I am sure many people expected her to say 'half of the court', but the point here is that for ages, people have thought NOTHING of the court being all male.. but if the tables were turned and they were all female, I would imagine that might be a point of contention for a great many.

Of course, this goes along with what you've been stating, elengil.

[elengil]

This topic always brings Ruth Bader Ginsburg to mind. She once said,

People ask me sometimes when, --when do you think it will be enough? When will there be enough women on the court? And my answer is when there are nine.

... I am sure many people expected her to say 'half of the court', but the point here is that for ages, people have thought NOTHING of the court being all male.. but if the tables were turned and they were all female, I would imagine that might be a point of contention for a great many.

Agree entirely!

[Frelga]

This is thoughtful and thought provoking, although for selfish reasons I hope they are wrong. Or at least not entirely right.

Covid-19 Will Mark the End of Affluence Politics

[Túrin Turambar]

A while back we had a discussion on this thread about golliwogs. I was reminded of it when I read this Reddit thread where a mother is faced with the dilemma of her sister-in-law giving her five-year-old daughter a golliwog doll as a gift and the daughter immediately becoming taken with it. I've honestly got no idea what I'd do in her situation.

[River]

I probably would have disappeared the toy when I had the chance and found a way to inform the giver that some things just don't belong in my house. Yeesh.

[Túrin Turambar]

Which is basically what she did, although there were also a lot of commentators who felt she should have discussed the matter with her daughter and explained the problem with the toy (vs those who felt five was too young to understand).

[River]

Yes, I skimmed the thread. It would very much depend on the five year-old. I'm not sure I would have even tried with my older daughter. The younger one is two and I have no idea how she'll be when she's five.

Actually, now that I think back, I did face something like this. We got a collection of hand-me-downs from my husband's cousin. His daughter is a couple years older than my oldest. Buried within the bags was a zip-up hoodie with a pretty cartoon Native American girl and the words "I'm an Indian Girl!". The tag was Serbian company. In Serbia, this kind of thing doesn't have the kind of, um, cultural sensitivity it does in the US. My husband and his entire family grew up on spaghetti westerns and Karl May and are convinced that's the "real West". I did not give the hoodie to my daughter. I did put it away. When the time comes and we can have a productive discussion, I'll dig it out and explain why this is problematic on this side of the Atlantic but not so much on the other.

[Frelga]

I have found that things that can't be explained to an average 5-year old have no business existing. But as River said, children are all different. I would have no trouble explaining to my son that a toy portrays people in a way that would make them sad. And probably had a pretty deep discussion with him. But he was never that attached to any toy. If he had really bonded with one, that could be a different story.

Also, hey, Karl May, and Gojko Mitić as Winnetou in East German movies!

[Inanna]

Yes, kids are different. I could have totally explained this to Irika but I can easily see kids in her circle to whom it would be very hard to.

[elengil]

Okay, apparently Shep's new show premiers Sept 30th.

[RoseMorninStar]

Good for him.

[Alatar]

Interesting angle I saw on Facebook.


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