Escaping the Echo Chamber

[yovargas]

Everyone knows that real music didn't start until the 60s. Duh.

[Primula Baggins]

That's enough out of you, whippersnapper.

[Frelga]

*hands Prim the ceremonial salmon*

[Primula Baggins]

This hurts me more than it hurts you, dear yov.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Of course, he meant the 1760s, when Mozart first started composing. So there!

[elengil]

Of course, he meant the 1760s, when Mozart first started composing. So there!

Reminds me of: Where are you now, Pachelbel? HuH? MTv's "I love the 1790's", where is it?!

[Frelga]

Lol, yes, I saw that!

V, but what about Vivaldi?

[Primula Baggins]

Vivaldi died in 1741, Bach in 1750, Scarlatti in 1751, and Händel in 1759. None of them made it to the Swingin' Sixties.

[Alatar]

If a bookstore chose not to sellHuckleberry Finn that would certainly be their choice, but in making that choice they would surely take into consideration the fact that it is a book of major cultural and artistic importance. Radio stations deciding whether or not to play the song in question could also take into account the level of cultural and artistic importance of the song. Your mileage may vary, but in my opinion the two aren't even worth comparing as to their levels of cultural or artistic importance.

Agreed, but it’s the thin end of the wedge isn’t it. Without intending to be crass, I could say, “First they came for the Christmas songs and I didn’t speak out, because I didn’t think they were culturally important enough...”

[Frelga]

Did you actually just compare this situation to the Holocaust?

[Alatar]

No. No, I didn't.

I'm really surprised I have to explain this, but its a sort of reverse "reductio ad absurdum" by showing that in small things, as in large, the same basic principles apply. If you accept one thing it leads to another. But hey, whip out your strawman to have a go Frelga, it seems you only reply to me nowadays to vaguely or directly accuse me of being a terrible human being. Not really sure why, but if you're going to continue, please take it to Nan Elmoth and stop hounding me every time I engage in a discussion.

[Frelga]

Are you not aware of the origin of your quote?

[Alatar]

See above.

[Alatar]

And now they want Fairytale of New York off the playlist too.

[Primula Baggins]

These aren’t laws being passed. These are cultural trends. The songs are not being destroyed. They still exist and will still be accessible to anyone who wants to hear them.

The only thing that’s changing is that it’s going to be less likely (for a while) that they’ll be played in public or on services where someone might encounter them unexpectedly.

I don’t see this as a sign of the Apocalypse. YMMV.

[Alatar]

Nobody claimed it was. I just think its an interesting discussion. Or thought it was...

[yovargas]

Agreed, but it’s the thin end of the wedge isn’t it. Without intending to be crass, I could say, “First they came for the Christmas songs and I didn’t speak out, because I didn’t think they were culturally important enough...”

They didn't "come for the Christmas songs". They "came" for the songs where a man was repeatedly told NO by a woman but he repeatedly ignored her, continued to pressure her, and possibly used alcohol to weaken her resolve. You know, the songs that sound pretty date rapey.

[Primula Baggins]

It is an interesting discussion.

In the context of the current political climate in the United States, where the thin ends of a lot of much larger wedges are being shoved into place every day, threatening things like voting rights, citizenship, human rights, freedom to assemble, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press, it’s hard for Americans in particular to summon up outrage over an issue like this one.

[Alatar]

Agreed, but it’s the thin end of the wedge isn’t it. Without intending to be crass, I could say, “First they came for the Christmas songs and I didn’t speak out, because I didn’t think they were culturally important enough...”

They didn't "come for the Christmas songs". They "came" for the songs where a man was repeatedly told NO by a woman but he repeatedly ignored her, continued to pressure her, and possibly used alcohol to weaken her resolve. You know, the songs that sound pretty date rapey.

Yes, a song that's clearly not about date rape, but "woke" people have decided it is. And now they're looking at Fairytale of New York because it contains the word "faggot". Do you, as a gay man, find that song offensive? And if so, would it still be offensive if the word faggot had no homophobic connotations in Ireland, but it did in the USA?

[yovargas]

You can choose to ignore the actual lyrics of the song if you choose but the song says what it says.


I am not personally familiar with that Fairytale song so I can't really comment but considering that most Americans don't know that the word "faggot" means something different across the pond, and that I assume they don't explain that every time they play the song here, I'm okay with people not getting randomly hit with hideous sounding slurs while listening to the radio.