Escaping the Echo Chamber

[Frelga]

IAWV

[River]

The ad made me shrug, mainly because it's so blatantly trying to be men talking to men I couldn't find any energy to respond.
I have, however, found some of the reactions hilariously awful. It's like the people responding felt called out and rather than reflect they flipped out about it.

Gilette ad: Being a man doesn't mean you have to be an @$$hole. And buy our razors while you're at it.
Offended men: MY MASCULINITY! WATCH US BLOW UP YOUR PRODUCTS!

Seriously. These people need help. Or hobbies.

[Frelga]

Via Twitter of Chris Evans, who is the real life embodiment of non-toxic masculinity.

Screenshot_20190116-142832.jpeg (43.05 KiB) Viewed 4545 times

[Primula Baggins]

I saw one poor sod explain mansplain that women would be able to understand men's problems with the ad if only women shaved, too.

[elengil]

To be fair, not all of us do shave. But then of course, not all men do, either! I guess men who don't shave just don't understand men's problems with the ad, either??

[yovargas]

I don't understand Chris Evans post.

[River]

I had to go look, yov. He was making fun of someone who was going to flush their razor. Since you can't actually do that, the next step would be sticking your hand in your toilet to pull out your unflushable razor.

As for the clueless guy, maybe the women in his life don't remove their hair, wax or use a chemical hair remover.

[Primula Baggins]

Or, maybe he thinks women are naturally hairless in places men are not.

[Frelga]

I don't understand Chris Evans post.

It wasn't his post, he was retweeting someone making fun of someone else who chose a rather stupid form of protest.

As for the clueless guy, I suspect that "women in his life" is a pretty big assumption.

[Lalaith]

I find it very crass for a corporation to preach at me in order to sell me something, even when I agree with the message.

That's an interesting point to make, and I didn't want it to get lost in the bigger discussion where so many others disagree with you. (Ultimately, I do, too, but I do understand where you're coming from and think it makes an interesting discussion.)

How would you say this ad campaign is any different than, e.g., the Dove ad campaigns for women, telling us to love our bodies no matter what? (That's another message I agree with, btw.) Ads are always trying to sell us something, usually tangible but also usually intangible. In fact, I don't particularly find it all that different than many other ads. I get where you're saying it feels crass. Maybe disingenuous is the word I'd use if I was feeling cynical. We know they're capitalizing on the current zeitgeist and hoping that it pays off for them, kind of similar to Nike's Colin Kaepernik campaign. But that is what companies do, and if we ever lose sight of that, then that's on us, not them. It's always all about the money. If they can manage to spread a good message with that desire to make money, well, I'm not really wanting to complain about that. It's better than spreading a negative or harmful message.

[River]

To expand on what Lali's saying about companies selling, this is something that I finally understood after watching The Devil Wears Prada. It's not just the products. It's what they mean. What they express about you and/or your aspirations. If you buy Dove soap it means you love your body just the way it is. If you buy a Gilette razor you're better than the bullies. Etc. And, for the record, my feelings towards the Dove ads are similar to Dave's about the Gilette ads. Nice point but do you have to use this very valuable idea to sell your soap?

[elengil]

I am torn. On one hand, I am somewhat repulsed by every manipulative method companies use to sell a product. I cannot, however, hold the same scorn if they are at least putting out a message I think is good and necessary, even if they are simply using that message to sell a product, because they have far too often used messages that were negative, reinforcing stereotypes or negative behaviors, creeping into the collective subconscious (or maybe pulled out of it!)

Companies sell sex, self-image, control, good times, wealth, and a host of other promises with their products - but most of all they give away dissatisfaction in order to sell their product - telling you what you are missing in your life and promising their product fills the hole.

If they can maybe, just maybe, sell self-love, adult behaviors, social consciousness, and the like... well yes, it's still product-selling manipulation, but at least the message is a positive one instead of a negative one. Instead of telling you your body is awful, buy our product, they tell you your body is beautiful... buy our product. Both have the exact same ultimate goal, but one is breeding negativity and the other is not. I cannot see them as equivalent evils.

[Alatar]

Gilette.jpg (82.8 KiB) Viewed 4473 times

I have to admit, I laughed

[Primula Baggins]

How old is the picture? Hairstyles don't appear to be from this decade.

[yovargas]

Eh. Even if it was from a year ago I don't think it means that the people at the company couldn't have had a change of heart. In fact, part of why I think the ad was great is because they explicitly admit to having been part of the problem and wanting to do better.

The whole "corporations are soulless greed-bots that will do anything for money" thing is silly to me. Corporations are groups of people, and people have widely varying ethical viewpoints. I see no reason to think that some people at some corporations couldn't genuinely prefer to try to have some positive social impact while also wanting to run a successful business.

But that whole discussion feels OT to me.

[Griffon64]

What yov said.

Gilette certainly used to be an aggressively manly-man corporation. They advertised a lot for motor sports, I think, where that kind of thing used to be quite common. But you know, people change and what people want change. Corporations, made of people, change with that - or they don't and risk becoming obsolete. Baby-smooth man-chins are no longer the manly-man thing to have. Boys will be boys is no longer the standard forced on everybody. Etc.

It is convenient to shorthand-lump concepts into static boxes ( eg. "corporations are greedy", "once an advertise-on-butts-corporation, always an advertise-on-butts-corporation" ) but the world is wider than that.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

This isn't the only "be the best we can be" Gillette commercial. There is another one that I have seen several times because most of the TV-watching that we do are sports events. It features Shaquem Griffin and his father Terry. Shaquem has a rare disease, amniotic band syndrome, which resulted in his left hand being amputated when he was a child. He has gone to become a professional football player. The ad highlights the role that Terry played in encouraging him to be the best that he can, including footage of Terry teaching Shaquem to shave (which made me consider whether the fact that I didn't not have a strong father figure growing up is one reason I have always had a beard). It's a pretty inspirational commercial (at least to me), even though it is part of the whole crass commercial thing. I hate commercials with a passion, but I certainly would prefer to see these types of things than the normal inane and/or offensive stuff out there.

https://adage.com/creativity/work/gille ... asy/946741

[Inanna]

Lets not forget that corporations are made up of people. Yes, the drive for profits can subsume some corporate cultures, but We are talking about people like you and me.

When we deride those “Wall Street firms”, you include gentle people like my R.
“Tech corporations that make us dependent” include people like Al.
“Those who can’t, reach” includes me.

Maybe the people making that Ad for Gillette wanted to make that statement.

[Frelga]

Still haven't seen the ad but the reaction strikes me as hilarious. "An ad tells me that using this razor makes me athletic and attractive to women? That sounds reasonable. An ad tells me that I don't have to be a dick to be a man? How very dare they! I shall now flush a $15 razor down the toilet and buy another $15 razor from the company that only uses the first kind of ad."

*shrug*

[elengil]

Still haven't seen the ad but the reaction strikes me as hilarious. "An ad tells me that using this razor makes me athletic and attractive to women? That sounds reasonable. An ad tells me that I don't have to be a dick to be a man? How very dare they! I shall now flush a $15 razor down the toilet and buy another $15 razor from the company that only uses the first kind of ad."

*shrug*

Exactly.

Ad which appeals to negative aspects of culture validates my negative aspects, ad which appeals to positive direction of cultural move judges me. How dare.