Not enough Whisky for this Tango Foxtrot

[Frelga]

Even if Mr. Trump wins or steals the election. Even if he does his worst, beyond even our wildest imaginations, we will come out on the other side and move forward in ways that we can't even anticipate now.

I expect that most people on this board will come out of it OK. We are a fairly privileged group. But tens of thousands more will die before this country rights its course.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

That is true. Don't think I am not cognizant of that fact, or the damage that is likely to be done to the environment as a result of a Trump victory.

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[RoseMorninStar]

*I typed this up before your last comment Voronwë.

With all due (great) respect and deep sympathies and compassion, the fears are not about mere stuff. At least for myself, there is a battle for the soul of this nation, one that will affect many people far beyond mere stuff. Even from the viewpoint of environmental issues alone, which have caused more fires, flooding, droughts, hurricanes, etc.. I think this election is a BFD, not just for Americans, but the whole world.

[Frelga]

That is true. Don't think I am not cognizant of that fact, or the damage that is likely to be done to the environment as a result of a Trump victory.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

I know, V.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

*I typed this up before your last comment Voronwë.

With all due (great) respect and deep sympathies and compassion, the fears are not about mere stuff. At least for myself, there is a battle for the soul of this nation, one that will affect many people far beyond mere stuff. Even from the viewpoint of environmental issues alone, which have caused more fires, flooding, droughts, hurricanes, etc.. I think this election is a BFD, not just for Americans, but the whole world.

Rose, I am not at all talking about 'stuff'. I'm talking about an acceptance of the impermanence of everything. That includes good and bad equally.

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[Sunsilver]

Yes. Germany recovered from Hitler, and their current chancellor is someone I greatly respect and admire.
Life will go on, and there's a VERY good reason the U.S.A. limited presidents to 2 terms in office!
I don't think even Trump will be able to change that.

[RoseMorninStar]

*I typed this up before your last comment Voronwë.

With all due (great) respect and deep sympathies and compassion, the fears are not about mere stuff. At least for myself, there is a battle for the soul of this nation, one that will affect many people far beyond mere stuff. Even from the viewpoint of environmental issues alone, which have caused more fires, flooding, droughts, hurricanes, etc.. I think this election is a BFD, not just for Americans, but the whole world.

Rose, I am not at all talking about 'stuff'. I'm talking about an acceptance of the impermanence of everything. That includes good and bad equally.

Of course you are not just talking about 'stuff'. My post was poorly worded and was compounded by the cross-post where I was trying to make a point about far-reaching consequences/the environment. I should have taken the time to re-word it. My sincere apologies.

I suppose it depends upon one's philosophical or spiritual views. While I am not a religious person I do have a quasi-spiritual outlook. I believe what we do (good and/or bad) matters in the overall scheme of things. If I did not, I think I would just give up.

[Alatar]

I get a daily email from the New York Times on their latest news and headlines. This is the New York Times talking about the President of America this morning. Just stop and think about that.

President Trump breaks so many of the normal rules of politics that it can sometimes be hard to know when his tweets and comments are truly newsworthy. Even by his standards, though, the past several days have stood out. Consider:

Trump said on Monday that a plane “almost completely loaded with thugs” wearing “dark uniforms” had been headed to the Republican National Convention to do “big damage.” The claim is similar to a baseless conspiracy theory that spread online over the summer, well before the convention.

He has declined to condemn the killings of two protesters in Kenosha, Wis. He instead defended the 17-year-old charged in the shootings — a Trump supporter named Kyle Rittenhouse — saying he was acting in self-defense. Trump also promoted a Twitter post that called Rittenhouse “a good example of why I decided to vote for Trump.”

He defended violence committed by his supporters in Portland, Ore., who fired paintballs and pepper spray at Black Lives Matter protesters.

He compared the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha to missing “a three-foot putt” in a golf tournament.

He claimed that “people that you’ve never heard of” and “people that are in the dark shadows” are controlling Joe Biden.

He claimed Democrats were trying to “destroy” suburbs with “low-income housing, and with that comes a lot of other problems, including crime.” He added that Cory Booker — one of the highest-profile Black Democrats — would be “in charge of it.”

He predicted that the stock market would crash if Biden won.

He said that Biden, at the Democratic National Convention, “didn’t even discuss law enforcement, the police. Those words weren’t mentioned.” In fact, Biden held a discussion at the convention on policing, with a police chief.

Trump claimed that he “took control of” the situation in Kenosha by sending in the National Guard. In fact, Wisconsin’s governor, not the president, sent the National Guard.
He retweeted messages asserting that the pandemic’s death toll was overstated. Evidence indicates the opposite is true.

He said that protests against police brutality were actually a secret “coup attempt” by anarchists “trying to take down the President.”

[Cerin]

It's wise to keep in mind that the American mainstream media has become an anti-Trump advocacy organization rather than a purveyor of news. For example, if the NYT were interested in informing the public, they might have presented the context or factual basis for some of the claims:

Trump said on Monday that a plane “almost completely loaded with thugs” wearing “dark uniforms” had been headed to the Republican National Convention to do “big damage.”

This claim might be related to the fact that Trump supporters leaving the convention on Thursday night were accosted by protesters.

He has declined to condemn the killings of two protesters in Kenosha, Wis. He instead defended the 17-year-old charged in the shootings — a Trump supporter named Kyle Rittenhouse — saying he was acting in self-defense.

In defending Rittenhouse, the Pres. referred to a video showing Rittenhouse under attack.

He compared the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha to missing “a three-foot putt” in a golf tournament.

The Pres. was saying the police officer choked under pressure (not that killing is parallel in significance to golf).

He claimed Democrats were trying to “destroy” suburbs with “low-income housing, and with that comes a lot of other problems, including crime.” He added that Cory Booker — one of the highest-profile Black Democrats — would be “in charge of it.”

In fact, there is an Obama program Biden has promised to bring back, and of which Booker is a strong advocate, to end single family zoning in the suburbs.

He said that Biden, at the Democratic National Convention, “didn’t even discuss law enforcement, the police. Those words weren’t mentioned.” In fact, Biden held a discussion at the convention on policing, with a police chief.

What wasn't mentioned at Dem convention was the violent rioting in American cities. It wasn't until polling and focus group data showed the rioting was an election issue, that Democrats switched from supporting 'peaceful protests' to decrying lawlessness.

He said that protests against police brutality were actually a secret “coup attempt” by anarchists “trying to take down the President.”

There has been consistent organized violence taking place under the cover of the protests against police brutality, targeting law enforcement and federal property. The DOJ/FBI have begun an investigation to find out who the anarchists (rioters, ne'er do wells, thugs, etc. -- your term of choice) are and who is funding them.

[River]

There is a wide gap between "destruction" and "allowing duplexes and triplexes". You should perhaps do some exploring. Wear a mask. There's a virus about.

[Alatar]

It's wise to keep in mind that the American mainstream media has become an anti-Trump advocacy organization rather than a purveyor of news. For example, if the NYT were interested in informing the public, they might have presented the context or factual basis for some of the claims:

Every one of those headlines was linked to the relevant article providing context. However, no context justifies this sort of appalling lack of judgment from the holder of one of the most powerful and privileged positions in the world.

[RoseMorninStar]

Conspiracy/far right-wing web sites radicalizing Americans to be vilgilantes is a real problem. I'm seeing QAnon signs in town. People toting guns. Main Stream media is not the problem. Radical conspiracy nonsense is. They are using the same tactics that Al-Queda does.

[Inanna]

I found this.... apt:

[RoseMorninStar]

Now the lunatic is telling people to commit a felony and vote twice.

Mr. Trump encouraged people to send in an absentee ballot and then go vote in person on Election Day.

“Let them send it in and let them go vote, and if their system’s as good as they say it is, then obviously they won’t be able to vote,” the president said. “If it isn’t tabulated, they’ll be able to vote.”

“That’s the way it is,” he added. “And that’s what they should do.”

Voting twice in the same election is illegal.

(...)
“Intentional willful double voting is a felony,” Mr. Gannon added.

Nah, Trump's not all about corruption and chaos and lies.. btw.. I've got a bridge to sell...

[Sunsilver]

One of the few conservatives I still keep on my FB friends list posted this today... [sigh!]

[Sunsilver]

And this is how some of them think it works. I can't even begin to point out all the leaps of 'logic' in this crazy post!! (Never mind the spelling mistakes! )

This is how it works folks...the upper crust of the upper echelon has devised a plan with the help of the WHO..They have told the WHO to inform all of their agents (health officials) to whisper what needs to be done (in the interest of public saftey) into the ears of heads of state around the world....those heads of state and all the trickle down goverments to municipal levels(who all have health officials that are dictated to by the WHO) make the laws and policies that people are required to follow.
So now the upper crust is having their way with the people of the world by means of passive aggression and only 2 people in the world that I know of are questioning this.
The rest of the world is conforming out of fear for their lives and for the lives of their loved ones. Its time that the upper crust be exposed for their true intent.
For those who dont know who the upper crust are....Gates...Bezos..Rothchilds...Soros...Rockafellers...Buffet....Musk and the like. These twisted bastards are going to strive to push their agenda forward and do not care how many people die in the process.
Its high time to do a little digging for the truth people.....stop and question what is truly going on instead of following like sheep.

[Alatar]

Every time I see this thinking I wonder, "Yeah, but why? Even if everything you said was true.... why?"

[Sunsilver]

Alatar, the post was SO crazy, at first I thought it was a parody of what some of the conspiracy theorists are spouting, but another post by the same person made me realize they were actually serious.

This might help explain it: https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -features/

[elengil]

Being open minded is about allowing new facts to change your opinion. That does not mean that every new crackpot conspiracy theory counts as 'new facts'.

John Oliver did a good episode on conspiracy theories and why they are so insidiously appealing.

[River]

Every time I see this thinking I wonder, "Yeah, but why? Even if everything you said was true.... why?"

Because sinking entire industries is a totally awesome way to get rich. Duh.

Actually, I think the appeal in the theories is it takes away the randomness factor in certain events. In the case of COVID-19, retreating into a conspiracy theory maintains an illusion of control over the natural world. Thing is, emerging diseases happen fairly regularly. Zika and MERS both popped up in the last five or six years. It happens as chaotically as any other natural disaster and as with any other disaster the human response to it can make the situation either better or worse. COVID-19 turned out to be more insidious than most new diseases in that it managed to get everywhere while health officials were still sleeping. But rather than accept that this is the sort of sh*t that just happens on occasion, some people find comfort in the idea that it was all engineered for some reason because it allows them to believe that there's some control over natural events like these. There isn't. It's the virological equivalent of a mega-earthquake and it hit during our lifetimes. But not everyone has the fatalism of a biologist so they try to concoct better stories. The connectivity of the internet and social media amplifies the nonsense. A surprisingly large fraction of the American public gets their news from Facebook, for example. I have no idea how that works or how the information is vetted for basis in reality. I use Facebook, but the only "news" that pops up on my feed is stuff friends and family are posting about their lives.