World News Thread

[Frelga]

Judeo-Christian teachings and values have so thoroughly permeated Western cultures that they are, for lack of a better term, "traditional"

I hear you, but can we leave the Judeo out of it? It just gets tacked on to blame Jews for something Christians did that people don't like. Besides, the forced pregnancy thing is almost entirely Christian.

[River]

I'm sorry. I was using what I thought was a generic term.

[Frelga]

No worries. I know it's a common expression and most people don't think very hard about it.

[yovargas]

That exchange. Now make it 10,000 times louder, make it happen non-stop 24/7, and make some version of it happen everywhere around the entire world for years on end. Wait 5 - 10 years. Observe how it is changing society. And realize this is the new reality we are living in.

[Frelga]

And now take it one step further. Imagine that your political career and financial security depend on one person's support.

[yovargas]

The career of politicians have always depended on the support of A" and "B". That hasn't changed. But this new form of loud, constant, inescapable, and global clashing is surely changing the millions and millions of "As" and "Bs" all over the world.

[RoseMorninStar]

Okay, I could buy that if there was a reasonable answer to the basic question - what could caused a sharp sense of fearful insecurity globally, across so many disparate countries, all occuring at roughly the same time, all pointing towards similar "defend our traditions from The Other" boogeymen?

I do not feel it is quite as unique or simple as this.

History is full of examples of periods of great unrest, migration, famine, and political leaders who will use such things to their advantage. There are many examples even from fairly recent times; the pogroms of the Jewish people all over Eastern Europe (including well before WWII/Hitler), pogroms or ethnic cleansing of the Romani people, Serbia/Kosovo, Laotians, the Tutsi's of Rwanda. Nicolae Ceaușescu's treatment of his people in Romania. Waves of Irish immigrants (and other immigrant groups) treated like vermin. American Japanese were put in internment camps in the US during WWII. Slavery. Arab Spring. Global warming & drought will make global migration and unrest worse. That media/information can be spread instantly around the world acerbates some problems. It only takes one or two Leaders who are or can be corrupted or are greedy to tip the scales. It doesn't take many players to create havoc and the internet makes it much, much easier (and instantaneous). And political parties are eager to use that division to their advantage. See: wedge issues. They are intentionally used for political purposes. Religion is often used as a manipulative political tool, which is especially awful imo.

Although not on the level of genocide, the 1960's/70's were not a gentle time of love and peace and good-will. The division in this country was real. The civil rights movement was far from a Kumbaya moment. Hatred for anything seen as 'hippie' or counter-culture was a serious issue. Have you heard of the Kent state massacre?

This may seem like a small thing, but it made a great impression upon me in grade school: I had a male teacher in 5th grade. He was an incredible teacher and had been voted Teacher of the Year but the district wanted him fired because he had a beard. Yes. How someone wore their hair was THAT divisive and vitriolic of an issue. There was a big uproar, the students had a 'sit-in' in protest. The teacher had a beard because his face had been disfigured by shrapnel from his service in Vietnam. This was not an isolated incident. There was a movie out about the same time with Dick Van Dyke called, Some Kind of Nut. He was a banker who was fired for having a beard. There was a lot of anger about hair length.. beards, clothing, non-conformity. (see the musical 'Hair') It may seem silly today, however segments of society have always wanted others to conform (or be punished/villified).

[Frelga]

The career of politicians have always depended on the support of "A" and "B". That hasn't changed. But this new form of loud, constant, inescapable, and global clashing is surely changing the millions and millions of "As" and "Bs" all over the world.

OK, I don't want to single out one poster like it's their personal fault, but the point is, in the US, a politician only needs to cater to one side, not both.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I edited out all of the personal references to specific posters. Please do not do what could be interpreted as ad hominin attacks on individuals, particularly when not addressing specific comments.

[yovargas]

I understand why you edited those posts, and I was worried that it would be interpreted in a way I was not intending, which is why I put the names of in quotes in my second post. It most certainly was not an ad hominem in any way whatsoever. My post was entirely descriptive, not judgmental. They had an exchange that I thought demonstrated my point of how the modern world of the internet and social media has changed society. I still think that brief exchange is very illustrative of my point, so I would like to edit it back. If you can suggest a way to make that point in a way you would find more acceptable, I would appreciate it.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I appreciate that your intentions are not to attack anyone, but I don't want specific names used in that way. I am confident that you can make your point without doing so.

[yovargas]

I appreciate that your intentions are not to attack anyone, but I don't want specific names used in that way.

Can you please be more specific in what way you mean?

My first post that you edited literally just said that Cerin and el had an exchange. Surely you don't have a problem with me saying that?

[elengil]

That exchange. Now make it 10,000 times louder, make it happen non-stop 24/7, and make some version of it happen everywhere around the entire world for years on end. Wait 5 - 10 years. Observe how it is changing society. And realize this is the new reality we are living in.

Sweetie had a podcast on that gave me an interesting view of the Me Too movement.

A lot of people say that was essentially a vigilante justice movement, not willing to wait for evidence or courts, it was tried in the public and convicted on hearsay alone and men's lives were ruined without recourse, etc. Even if the men were telling the truth 'this time' they get lumped in with all the other liars.

A lot of people conveniently ignore (or are outright ignorant of) that this is exactly what was happening to women prior to the movement getting traction.

Women would come forward and would not be believed, would not be given their fair shot at justice, would be socially stigmatized, lose their jobs, be called "crazy bitch" and "she does this all the time" in social circles, ostracized, and with no hope of recourse. She gets swept aside as a liar. Especially - especially - if she dared to name anyone powerful.

The Me Too movement was a final reaction to being systematically denied justice, both legally and socially, for generations.

But a lot of people point to the movement as the left being unreasonable, being out for blood, being driven by emotion, etc. They are persecuting men without due process!! You can't even talk to them now!

This basically sums up my opinion of what people decry as PC culture. The tactics have always been used - usually by the oppressor. The tactics have been around for centuries if not longer. People want to blame PC culture for changing things - now suddenly you can't do X or Y or Z and people have become so sensitive and everyone is just a hair trigger from starting a social outrage over any little thing.

But they aren't little things, they were never little things. They are the things that have been going on for generations. Oppression, racism, antisemitism, victim blaming, erasing reality and replacing it with the comfortable lie that everything is fine because everything was fine if you were in the powerful majority.

Sexual harassment has gone on since before women were just trying to be treated equal. Since before women were just trying to get their job done. Since before women were just trying to vote. Since before women were trying to win the right to be seen as humans instead of the property of their husbands.

Racism has been a problem since before minorities were just trying to be treated equal. Since before they just wanted the jobs they were qualified for. Since before they just wanted to go to school. Since before they wanted to be seen as human instead of property.

Homophobia was a problem since before gay people wanted to get married. Since before gay people just wanted to keep their jobs. Since before they wanted to just be able to rent a house. Since before they wanted to not get killed by the mob. And definitely long before they started having pride parades.

It astonishes me that people think these are all "new, unreasonable" demands that the left makes, and if we'd just tone it down things would be fine. Well no, things were never fine for a very large number of people. If things had been fine then we'd literally have nothing to ask for, we wouldn't need to march or sit-in, and there'd be no social media justice warrior behind a keyboard shaming those who perpetuate abusive behaviors.

The left action that you are seeing is a reaction whether you want to acknowledge the cause or not. So when people say the right is rising as a response to all this "new" PC left culture, I think... when was the right ever content with minorities and women and homosexuals to just exist quietly next to them? When was the right letting Jewish communities just live in peace? When was the right this utopia of compassion before the left came and supposedly ruined it for everyone?

The left is the response to the right, the right that went unchecked for way too long. Not 'political' left and right, but social. The left has never been out to persecute the majority for being in the majority, they are there to protect the minority that the majority decided was deserving of persecution for being different.

So "That exchange" is going on because not having it is literally standing there and letting people be murdered because they aren't exactly the same in some way to those who have chosen murder as an acceptable solution for their fear of different. Because there are those who have discovered that their power is predicated on ensuring that the majority are suitably afraid of someone that isn't those with the power.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I appreciate that your intentions are not to attack anyone, but I don't want specific names used in that way.

Can you please be more specific in what way you mean?

My first post that you edited literally just said that Cerin and el had an exchange. Surely you don't have a problem with me saying that?

Talk about the issues, not about the people.

Sent from my LG G6 using Tapatalk

[River]

I think Voronwë means: if you're going to affix labels to two opposing points of view, don't use the names of posters here. Even if they're both expressing these opposing points of view.

[Frelga]

OK, allow me to restate.

In a dispute between a white straight Christian and a member or advocate* of any disadvantaged group, a politician needs to pander to the WSC. Except when the dispute is between a WSC man and woman, in which case the politician needs to pander to the man.

Politicians for both parties are aware of this dynamic. See, electability. But with Republicans openly and wholeheartedly embracing it, the Democratic party is the only alternative. So now it's developing a socially progressive wing, which is still in minority.

* Probably does need not to be spelled out but of course WSC individual can step in as the advocate for other groups. The kids call it being an ally and using their privilege.

[Cerin]

reconsidered, please feel free to delete

[RoseMorninStar]

That exchange. Now make it 10,000 times louder, make it happen non-stop 24/7, and make some version of it happen everywhere around the entire world for years on end. Wait 5 - 10 years. Observe how it is changing society. And realize this is the new reality we are living in.

Sweetie had a podcast on that gave me an interesting view of the Me Too movement. (etc...)

Well said elengil.

The term 'PC culture' can be and has been used as a tool to shut down the very real concerns of those who are marginalized or who have been wronged/denied justice by those who have power &/or privilege. It's a bullying tactic. Can some misuse 'PC culture' as a false narrative/ 'cry wolf'? I would think so. Sort of like the 'war on Christmas' is a feigned injustice (demanding/forcing others to cater to a particular religious tradition largely in a commercial way is just.. bizarre, imo.)

[elengil]

In watching other news videos, I came across this one, an interview of Snowden.

[RoseMorninStar]

He's very interesting, isn't he?

What he has to say is rather chilling.

Every breath you take, every move you make, every bond you break, every step you take:
I'll be watching you. Every single day, every word you say, every game you play, every night you stay..