2020 Presidential Election

[elengil]

Perhaps we are not getting the same message from the video. Your post seems to indicate that you find him speaking as an alarmist? Though since you haven't really told me what you meant by not finding him convincing I am grasping at attempting to formulate an answer in my head on your behalf, which is a little irritating.

Perhaps because I have the context of his other videos I understand him differently. He isn't saying this IS what is going to happen, quite so much as he is cautioning it is entirely possible, that it can happen, and that we are actively in the "days leading up" to many of these things, though they are not a foregone conclusion at the end of those days. He is talking through a potential future "If this, then that" scenario, perhaps to dislodge any that may still be bafflingly complacent. I find his tone both cautionary and warning, but not alarmist or unreasonably wild or speculatory.

Mostly I find that his caution is justified, these are possibilities, whether they actually end up playing out that way or not. So I am still not sure what it is you find unconvincing, since to me finding this caution unconvincing sounds like you feel there is nothing that Trump has done to warrant such caution.

I would really, really prefer you simply answer for yourself, though, since I really hate playing the "what did he really mean?!" game.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I think he has a naive and superficial understanding of politics in America, and that will be my last words on the subject.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

[RoseMorninStar]

Jason Stanley, professor at Yale who wrote the book, "How Fascism works. The politics of Us and Them" has pretty much the same thing to say in a video inserted within a piece in the NYT.
Video:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/20/opin ... 80fdb81fcd

[Voronwë the Faithful]

That article doesn't remotely say the same thing that the video clip says, Rose. The video clip is all about why Trump could win the election by using these tactics. That article doesn't even talk about that. (ETA: I read the article, I didn't watch the video.)

[RoseMorninStar]

Yeah, one would have to watch the video. I don't know why it was inserted in that article. The editor must have felt it was pertinent. Some of the transcript may seem disjointed without the accompanying images, descriptions/quote designations as to whom is speaking in inserted video clips; of cabinet members addressing Trump with obsequious comments at the start of a cabinet meeting or Rudy Guiliani's video clip about "Truth isn't truth." etc..
Transcript of the video. by Jason Stanley

If You’re Not Scared About Fascism in the U.S., You Should Be
When fascism starts to feel normal, we’re all in trouble.

Fascist — people like to use the word to describe any politician they don’t like on both sides of the aisle. Now it might seem like an exaggeration to call Trump a fascist. I mean, he’s not calling for a genocide or imprisoning his own people without due process. But I want you to reflect for a moment on his words, on his political tactics — on his rhetoric, if you will. I’ve devoted the last decade of my life to studying fascist propaganda. And if you use history and philosophy as a guide, it’s easy to see parallels between Trump’s words and those of the most reviled fascists in history. That scares me. And it should scare you, too. [music] We’ve flirted with fascism before. “They wore Hitler’s uniforms, but they wrapped themselves in the American flag.” But how are we seeing these images echoed in 21st-century America? “Build that wall!” Well, the formula for fascism is surprisingly simple. And it gets repeated a lot. Italy and Germany, of course, but fascist movements are on the rise today in India, Myanmar, Hungary, Turkey, and right here in the United States. No matter where they come from, fascist politicians everywhere are cut from the same cloth. Fascism first takes root when politicians conjure up a faith in a mythic past — a past supposedly destroyed by liberals, feminists and immigrants. For Mussolini, it was the Roman Empire. For Erdogan in Turkey, it’s the Ottomans. Hungary’s Viktor Orban rewrote the Constitution with the goal of “making Hungary great again” — a line that sounded great to someone. “Did you ever hear this before? ‘Make America great again.’” [cheering and applause] Fascists create an overwhelming sense of nostalgia for a past that is racially pure, traditional and patriarchal. From Mussolini to Hitler to Erdogan, fascist leaders position themselves as father figures and strongmen. “I want to thank you for getting this country moving.” “I can’t thank you enough for the privilege that you’ve given me.” “Greatest privilege of my life.” As long as he — and yes, it’s always a he — remains in power, everything is possible. Without him the whole system collapses. “I’ll tell you what. If I ever got impeached, I think the market would crash. I think everybody would be very poor.” Once you’ve got your mythic past, you need the next ingredient. Division, whether it’s between Germans and Jews, Hindus and Muslims, citizens and foreigners, whites and blacks, fascists succeed by turning groups against each other. The Nazis said Jews had no value because they supposedly did no mental or physical work. In Myanmar, the Rohingya have been denounced as rapists and criminals, a line which will sound familiar to many Mexicans. “They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” When you divide, it’s easier to control. Once fascism has taken root, it spreads through propaganda — and, in particular, a kind of anti-intellectualism. “They can make anything bad, because they are the fake, fake, disgusting news.” Fascists attack the truth because truth is central to a free democracy. “It’s somebody’s version of the truth, not the truth.” “Truth is truth. I don’t mean to go — “ “No, it isn’t truth! Truth isn’t truth!” This environment creates a Petri dish for conspiracy theories. Have you seen this symbol at a Trump rally recently? It’s a sign for a popular online conspiracy theory that the “deep state” is working to bring down Trump. It’s not a million miles away from Viktor Orban’s wild campaigns against a global Jewish conspiracy. With the truth under attack and lies running wild, no one can agree on what’s true anymore. And fascists love it when that happens. You might think I’m trying to frighten you by making these parallels. And do you know what? I am. My parents survived the Holocaust. And my grandmother, in her memoir, wrote about how Jews in Germany didn’t see the Nazi threat until it was too late. “In 1937, we were still able to leave the country,” she wrote. “We could still live in our homes. We could still worship in our temples. We were in a ghetto. But the majority of our people were still alive.” I want you to be scared, because if you’re not worried about encroaching fascism in America, before long, it will start to feel normal. And when that happens, we’re all in trouble.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Meanwhile, anti-Semitism rears its ugly head in the increasingly close Georgia Senate race.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/28/politics ... index.html

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

[Sunsilver]

"Senator, literally no one believes your excuses," Ossoff said. "You can start with an unqualified apology to Georgia's Jewish community."

Amen to that!!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Democrat Biden says he will name running mate in first week of August

[RoseMorninStar]

[Voronwë the Faithful]

My current, somewhat surprising, prediction is Karen Bass.

[River]

I'm rooting for Duckworth.

[elengil]

I'm rooting for Duckworth.

I desperately want to root for her but I'm also very nervous about taking any incumbent Democrat out of congress right now. Though I suppose it's only an issue of Biden wins? Or... that's always been confusing to me. Can she defend her congressional seat and be the VP pick at the same time??

[River]

She's the junior Senator from Illinois and she's not up for re-election until 2022. She doesn't have to defend her seat but if she becomes VP Illinois will have to appoint a replacement. Hopefully Pritzker will be more above board about that than Blagojevich was.

[Túrin Turambar]

Not satire, just direct honesty.

https://www.settleforbiden.org/

[Frelga]

Not satire, just direct honesty.

https://www.settleforbiden.org/

Seems a bit immature. I wanted Warren when that was an option, but with the choices as they stand now? It's not settling, it's the only rational move.

[RoseMorninStar]

Warren/Buttigieg would have been a good ticket, IMO. While Joe may not have been my first choice, he's a decent person who loves the country and wants to do what is best for people. What he is able to do is another story. He will appoint competent people.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Not satire, just direct honesty.

https://www.settleforbiden.org/

Seems a bit immature. I wanted Warren when that was an option, but with the choices as they stand now? It's not settling, it's the only rational move.

I agree. Warren was my first choice by far, but I'm not "settling" for Biden.

[Sunsilver]

Gee, who didn't see this coming?

Trump wants to delay election:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... g-election

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Biden certainly saw it coming. He predicted it back in April.

[Alatar]

Its even being reported here:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0730/11564 ... 0HTKTS3Vy0

Have to say I agreed with Impy's video that she posted on Facebook about American Social Collapse. Did you guys see that?