Impeachment

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Morrison didn't resign today. His departure has been in the works for some time, though it is unclear whether he is being forced out or leaving voluntarily. It is also unclear when his actual departure will be. But he will still be on the White House staff tomorrow, making him the highest ranked staffer to testify thus far.

The argument that the White House is making in demanding that Kupperman not testify is that he was a close enough advisor to the President that he is covered by something called 'constitutional privelege' which is more expansive than executive privilege. Bush made the same argument about Harriet Miers. But no court has determined the validity of the claim. I don't think they have a good argument, but it is impossible to say what the judge will do.

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[RoseMorninStar]

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/3 ... ony-000309

[Voronwë the Faithful]

That article is somewhat misleading but even it acknowledges that his departure has been in the works for some time. His replacement is already lined up.

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[Voronwë the Faithful]

More about the cover-up. This is pretty damning.

White House lawyer moved transcript of Trump call to classified server after Ukraine adviser raised alarms

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[yovargas]

That's interesting as it sounds like the idea to hide the call came directly from this Eisenberg person. If that's the case, I'd think that would give Trump some cover on this part of the allegations as he can say it wasn't his idea to do that.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

It never was suggested that it was Trump's idea to do that; that's not his style. The reason it is significant is that it shows that the top lawyer in the NSC thought that Col. Vindman's concerns about the phone call were significant enough that extraordinary measures to hide it were necessary.

[River]

I feel like if the Trump Administration were a little bit smarter they could assign a fall guy, or assemble a cabal of fall guys, and get Trump out of this intact. It doesn't look like that's possible anymore because Trump keeps running his mouth and Twitter fingers and reminding everyone to read the document that got the impeachment process up to ramming speed in the first place.

[elengil]

I feel like if the Trump Administration were a little bit smarter they could assign a fall guy, or assemble a cabal of fall guys, and get Trump out of this intact. It doesn't look like that's possible anymore because Trump keeps running his mouth and Twitter fingers and reminding everyone to read the document that got the impeachment process up to ramming speed in the first place.

They've tried before and failed because Trump.

Remember they actively tried to fire Comey for a variety of things, they got letters from DOJ heads to say he acted improperly and should be fired. Then Trump goes on and says "Nope, I already decided to fire him cause of the Russia thing." So even when they give him the perfect out, the perfect cover, he can't accept being excused, no, he has to have been right without them.

[Dave_LF]

I'm following these stories, but I can't find a way to stop telling myself it doesn't matter how damning the evidence may be when the judges are in league with the devil

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Even if the Senate acquits, which is certainly the most likely result (but by no means certain), and even if there is a political backlash that hurts the Democrats, which I think is actually quite unlikely, but certainly not impossible, it is the right thing to do. This isn't just some petty political bickering; this is existential attack on the very nature of our democracy. Not taking this action would be validating that that is okay.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The House easily passed the resolution 232-196. No Republicans voted yes (but former Republican Justin Amash, who is now an independent, did), and only two Democrats, Rep. Collin Peterson from Minnesota and Rep. Jeff Van Drew from New Jersey, voted no.

[elengil]

but certainly not impossible, it is the right thing to do. This isn't just some petty political bickering;

Disagree. This very much is petty political bickering. You have one side claiming that a constitutional process is unconstitutional because it's happening to them. Claiming to be shut out of a process they're involved in. Harming national security for a stunt show. Refusing to secure elections because that would admit there is a threat. Claiming that investigation into allegations of corruption is illegitimate. Ignoring calls for violence against a whistle-blower. Claiming that the president is above the law, above oversight. Claiming that normal is abnormal and abnormal is normal.

The amount of backtracking on previous statements about the office of the president and the process of impeachment, and heck, even politically motivated investigations, would be laughable if it didn't have serious, direct impact on the country and the future. And, as we're seeing, a good portion of the world as well.

[Dave_LF]

I concur Voronwë; it just means I can't get too excited or hopeful about any of it, at least unless Republicans start turning on him. And if they're ok with everything the man has done so far, it's hard to see how that could happen.

[yovargas]

Damnit. I was really hoping that at least some small number of Republicans would have enough integrity to vote yes.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I very much doubt that will happen at all in the House, even after the public hearings. It will be interesting to see what happens in the Senate, particularly with the Senators that are up for reelection in competitive states and the three that refused to sponsor the recent resolution condemning the House process (Susan Collins falls into both categories). My best guess is those three, and perhaps a few others, will put out a statement condemning Mr. Trump's actions but say that they don't rise to the level of removal from office.

[RoseMorninStar]

Trump has claimed repeatedly that the memo (transcript/not transcript) was word for word. He can't just blame others. Well, he can and he will, but facts matter. Or should.

Yov, I'm disappointed too. I guess facts don't matter to them either. No surprise, I guess. It's Party over Country.

A former republican strategist I was watching last night said (to paraphrase) that Mitch will do whatever it takes to maintain control in the Senate. IF and only IF it looks like he will lose seats in the house he will turn on Trump without a second thought. SO.. it's not about truth or values or patriotism or what is right, it's about maintaining power.

[Dave_LF]

SO.. it's not about truth or values or patriotism or what is right, it's about maintaining power.

That's what it's always been about, but the system was designed in ways that were supposed to ensure reasonably good outcomes could be achieved in spite of that fact. But the system was also designed 200 years ago for a much smaller population that didn't have computers.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Top NSC Russia official confirms key testimony linking Trump to quid pro quo



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[RoseMorninStar]

SO.. it's not about truth or values or patriotism or what is right, it's about maintaining power.

That's what it's always been about, but the system was designed in ways that were supposed to ensure reasonably good outcomes could be achieved in spite of that fact. But the system was also designed 200 years ago for a much smaller population that didn't have computers.

Yes, yes, I know. But the idealist in me wishes otherwise. *sigh*

[elengil]

SO.. it's not about truth or values or patriotism or what is right, it's about maintaining power.

That's what it's always been about, but the system was designed in ways that were supposed to ensure reasonably good outcomes could be achieved in spite of that fact. But the system was also designed 200 years ago for a much smaller population that didn't have computers.

Or Super PACs, or multi-billion dollar lobby industries, or a broad ignorance of civics, or the slow structural build-up to where we are today.

But then, it also had its flaws, like deciding who was and wasn't a person, and who was allowed to have a voting voice.