Impeachment

[Dave_LF]

True. But I can't help but feel that the whole thing has become like a frail elderly person whose failing immune system is no longer able to swat down the pathogens that have been there all along. And even if we manage to get rid of this particular infection with an aggressive antibiotic treatment, there are plenty more waiting in the wings.

[RoseMorninStar]

Trump can (and seems to be) buying the loyalty of the Senators. So much for the hopes of a fair trial.

[elengil]

Trump can (and seems to be) buying the loyalty of the Senators. So much for the hopes of a fair trial.

If you have to pay people to be your friends...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I've seen a number of articles that make that point. In fact, Richard Painter, the chief White House ethics lawyer in the George W. Bush administration, has gone so far as to argue that Trump should be charged with bribery. But I think it is murkier than that. The fact of the matter is that it is common practice for a president to lend campaign support to allies in his (or her, when that finally happens) party. Trump would likely be doing that regardless of the impeachment proceeding. So I am not quite ready to condemn him for that.

After all, I have so much else that I can condemn him for!

[RoseMorninStar]

But now that the Senators are jurors, it puts a different spin on it, I would think.

Something else I was pondering today (as I was shoveling our unseasonably heavy snowfall) is that in Trumps deluded conspiracy theory effort to avoid the 'Deep State' he's created one of his own, in a way, with his 'shadow state'.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Judge Leon set a fairly tight briefing schedule in the Kupperman case, but the oral argument is not scheduled until December 10, so it is likely to be largely a moot point, as the House is not going to wait for a decision in that case before proceeding with their case. Judge Leon also asked Cooper (the lawyer for Kupperman as well as John Bolton) whether he planned to file a similar lawsuit on Bolton's behalf if he is served with a subpoena, and Cooper refused to give a straight answer.

Meanwhile, the other hearing that happened today was in the case regarding the subpoena for Don McGahn (the former White House Counsel who was such an important player in the Mueller investigation) to testify before the Judiciary Committee, which has been going on for months. The judge in that case appeared by skeptical of the Justice Department's arguments, but took the case under advisement.

[RoseMorninStar]

What do you make of Devin Nunes' aide (Kashyap “Kash” Patel) misrepresenting himself to Trump/the administration as the NSC (National Security Council) expert on Ukraine? There is something really weird about that. How does something like that happen?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'm at a loss to comment on that whole situation, really. I think you said it all.

[elengil]

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/04/77609257 ... -depositio

The headline says transcripts are released, but I didn't find a link to them...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Two transcripts were released, from former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch and Michael McKinley, a former senior adviser to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who resigned in part because of the lack of support Yovanovitch received from Pompeo, and in part (it now turns out, from his transcript) because of his concern about using the State Department for domestic political purposes. I haven't seen transcripts yet, but CNN has been posting excerpts and they are pretty damning, though they are not the most significant of the witnesses.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Here is the McKinley transcript: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4688 ... transcript

And here is the Yovanovitch transcript: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4688 ... nt-hearing

[elengil]

Not directly related but relevant to the process - https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/ ... ump-943265 and interesting article discussing the change on subpoena power and how it has played out.

I understand the difficulty of taking a power used against you before and willingly disarming yourself, but I really wish that the Democrats would undo the Republican change on subpoena powers. Especially while the Republicans continue to bash Democrats as if they themselves were not the ones who made this possible to begin with.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

[off topic]That tie that Gerry Connolly is wearing is 'interesting'.[/off topic]

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Hard to say how much significance this has, but at the least, it is interesting.

Lawyer says Giuliani associate Lev Parnas prepared to comply in impeachment inquiry

Parnas was formerly represented by former Trump attorney John Dowd, who made the remarkable assertion that Parnas could be covered by executive privilege, even though there is no indication that Parnas had an official government role, or even represented Mr. Trump in any way other than indirectly through Giuliani. Perhaps his new attorney is somewhat more realistic. I'm doubtful that Parnas has any information that is going to be particularly damaging to Mr. Trump that he is going to be willing to reveal without incriminating himself, but you never know.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Sondland "updated" his testimony yesterday to explicitly confirm that he personally told the Ukrainians that military aid would not be released until the two investigations that Trump and Giuliani wanted were announced.

Sondland Updates Impeachment Testimony, Describing Ukraine Quid Pro Quo

That pretty much shoots down every possible defense that the president and his allies have been making. "This is all just hearsay and second hand opinion." Well, here is someone who was in direct contact with Trump flat out saying that he personally told them Ukrainians that the aid was contingent on the Biden and 2016 investigations. "These are partisan attacks by Democrats and Never-Trumpers (aka "human scum"). Well, Sondland is as far from a Democrat or a never-Trumper as you can get, being a Trump loyalist who donated a million dollars to the inaugural fund and was rewarded with the ambassadorship to the EU in exchange. "The process is unfair!" Well, the fact that Sondland now suddenly "remembers" something that he didn't remember in his testimony shows why it was so necessary to do these depositions before having public hearings.

At this point, there are three possibilities. 1) Sondland falls on his sword and claims that the quid pro quo was really his doing all along. Not going to happen. 2) Giuliani falls on his sword (or is thrown on it by Trump) and says that he alone was responsible for the quid pro quo and it had nothing to do with Trump. Not likely, and not very believable, particularly when you have Trump explicitly asking Zelensky for the investigations after the aid was withheld. 3) The GOP line becomes "sure it was a quid pro quo, but who cares?"

[yovargas]

I'll take door #3 for the win!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Smart fellow!

[Dave_LF]

I thought we were already through door number three and well into "the President can do whatever he wants" territory.

[elengil]

I thought we were already through door number three and well into "the President can do whatever he wants" territory.

But only when they're 'our' party.

[Dave_LF]

Well naturally. Rules are for other people.