Impeachment

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Here's a link to an article about the letter, although it doesn't quote the part you cite, Rose.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4661 ... ublic-when

Meanwhile, Elijah Cummings, the chairman of the Oversight Committee, one of the other committees running the inquiry, passed away last night. Apparently he has been in poor health recently, but I don't know the details. He will be missed.

Today Gordan Sondland, the Ambassador to the EU who was oddly tasked with dealing with Ukraine despite the fact that Ukraine is not part of the EU, is testifying today after being subpoenaed following his blocked testimony last week. He reportedly is going to say that the text in which he said that there was no quid pro quo was dictated to him by Mr. Trump and he doesn't know whether it was true or not.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Sounds like Sondland is at least to some extent throwing Trump under the bus.

Ambassador breaks with Trump, testifying the President directed diplomats to work with Giuliani on Ukraine

There are some aspects of Sondland's opening statement that stretch credulity. He says  he wasn't aware until "much later" that Giuliani's agenda might have included an effort to "prompt the Ukrainians" to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter and to involve the Ukrainians in the President's campaign, yet there have been numerous media reports about Giuliani's effort to do just that since early last year. And even if Sondland somehow didn't know about those reports, he also says in his opening statement that there was a July email between Volker, Taylor and Sondland agreeing Zelensky should stay out of the 2020 US presidential campaign. If he didn't know that Giuliani was trying to get the Ukrainians to investigate Biden why was he agreeing that they should stay out of the U.S. election?

Another very interesting thing that he says is he was not on the July 25, 2019 call and did not see a transcript of that call until September 25, 2019, when the White House publicly released it. "None of the brief and general call summaries I received contained any mention of Burisma or former Vice President Biden, nor even suggested that President Trump had made any kind of request of President Zelensky."

But of course the 'transcript' does specifically say that Trump asked Zelensky to specifically investigate not just Burisma but Biden himself. So even if Sondland really didn't know that that was what the president was looking for (which stretches credulity but doesn't really matter) it is literally undeniable that that was what the president was looking for.


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[RoseMorninStar]

Meanwhile, Elijah Cummings, the chairman of the Oversight Committee, one of the other committees running the inquiry, passed away last night. Apparently he has been in poor health recently, but I don't know the details. He will be missed.

Oh no, that is unfortunate. I know he's been in ill health. He was such an inspiration.

The thing with narcissists is that early on in your 'relationship' (which is ALWAYS a transactional one) you will be asked to do something .. usually something small and of no/little consequence, or so it seems at the time. It is a test to see how compliant you are. It's exactly what he did with Comey.. asking for his 'loyalty' (meaning personal loyalty.. not loyalty to the country or constitution). If you do not pass this 'test' you are done for. If you do pass, you will be increasingly drawn in to their schemes, sometimes one is in deep before they realize just how deep they are. That does not absolve them of what they've done, but they have become a patsy.

That is not to say Sondland is innocent. I haven't been following enough to say. I am just pointing out the typical narcissistic pattern. People start out with something that they may realize is .. maybe not quite on the up & up but fairly harmless, but they find themselves in deep before long because the narcissist often gets others to do the dirty work.

Thanks for the link to the Hill article. The article does have some of the phrases/sentences sprinkled in from what I've heard was in the letter.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

And like clockwork, Mulvaney is now denying that he said what he said, even though he said what he said.

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[Frelga]

Someone needs to look up "secret" and also "Soviet" and 'impeachment". And probably "sources" and "door".

Via https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/stat ... 91105?s=19

IMG_20191018_011329.jpg (69.47 KiB) Viewed 2420 times

[yovargas]

In the absolute bombardment of news events in the wake of the whistleblower report, has there been any new information or testimony about the alleged attempt to cover up the Ukraine call transcript?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

That's the one area that the administration's stonewalling makes it almost impossible to investigate.

Meanwhile, here is an indication of a possible crack in the Republican firewall: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/201 ... -politics/

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Another crack, though with the caveat that Kasich is no longer in office and was a defeated rival in the 2016 GOP primary. Still, this is pretty powerful stuff, and it doesn't even acknowledge the inference that if investigating the 2016 DNC server issue was a quid pro quo, and the "favor" that Trump explicitly asked Zelensky to do and Zelensky agreed to do before the aid was released, was both the investigation of the 2016 DNC server issue and the investigation of Biden, the investigation of Biden was part of the quid pro quo.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/18/politics ... index.html

[RoseMorninStar]

I caught something in our local(ish) paper that I can't find online without a paywall:

Sensenbrenner sits out closed-door impeachment inquiry
As three congressional committees take testimony behind closed doors in an unfolding impeachment inquiry, some Republicans complain they're on the outside looking in.
But at least one Republican who could be on the inside is opting out.
Longtime lawmaker Jim Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin has declined to attend any of the depositions or interviews in the Ukraine investigation, even though he sits on one of the three House committees (foreign affairs, intelligence and oversight) whose members are allowed to participate in the closed-door proceedings.
"I have chosen not to do so because I can't talk (publicly) about what I find out inside those meetings," Sensenbrenner, a member of the House Foreign Affairs panel, said in an interview.
"This is a way, in my opinion, to gag members of the foreign affairs committee and the other two committees-Republican members-from actually going out an talking about what the testimony was," he said.*
Sensenbrenner is one of just two Wisconsin lawmakers who sit on one of the three House investigating committees and therefore have the ability to attend the depositions. The other is Republican Glenn Grothman, a member of the Oversight and Reform Committee.
Grothman has sat in on the proceedings just once, he said in an interview. That happened this week. The committees have been meeting privately for several weeks (including the two-week recess that ended Monday), questioning the current and former administration officials about President Donald Trump's efforts to get Ukraine to investigate his potential Democratic challenger, Joe Bidden.
Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union and a key figure in the controversy, testified Thursday.
Like most House Republicans, Sensenbrenner and Grothman dispute the notion that Trump has committed impeachable offenses. And like many GOP colleagues, they have been heavily critical of the impeachment process adopted by House Democrats, including the use of closed-door testimony.
"I think it's kind of ridiculous, like most Republicans do-the idea these things are held in private," Grothman said. "Remember Watergate, when you had (lawmakers) parading witnesses before the public? Now you're doing something three floors under the ground in the (Capitol). Isn't that a little preposterous? ... We're surprised the mainstream media isn't making a bigger deal of it."
Sensenbrenner also condemned the process, saying Democrats ignored precedent by not having a floor vote of the full House to authorize the impeachment inquiry. He complained that the depositions being taken behind closed doors deprive the White House of the ability to question witnesses.
Democrats say the secrecy during this phase of the investigation is necessary to prevent witnesses from coordinating their stories.
In a letter this week to House colleagues, Intelligence committee Chairman Adam Schiff wrote that the transcripts of those closed-door interviews will be made public, and "we also anticipate that at an appropriate point in the investigation we will be taking witness testimony in pubic, so that the full Congress and the American people can hear their testimony firsthand."

*I will add it's not just to 'gag' Republicans, but the 'gag' rules apply to everyone on the committee, Republican and Democrat alike. It seems the letter from Adam Schiff I mentioned a couple of days ago must be in response to this. The reason things are playing out the way they are is because AG William Barr did not do his due diligence and open an investigation. Sensenbrenner (and Grothman...) are ostrich's putting their heads in the sand because they've already made up their minds.

*edited for spelling/clarity

[yovargas]

Interesting. In both case Mulvaney's insane "yes, there was quid pro quo, oops I mean no there wasn't" statements seem to have been a major factor in both cracks.

[RoseMorninStar]

I get the feeling many Republicans are waiting for public opinion to turn so as to take the blame for the decision off their shoulders. They have to be appalled by some of the stuff Trump is pulling, the chaos, the flaunting - I'd say daring - someone to call him out on his decisions/behavior. Shenanigans like setting up his own resort to hold the G7.. I mean.. come on. It's IN YOUR FACE lawbreaking and he's probably thinking.. I can do whatever I want, what are you going to do about it?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

For once, Mr. Trump backed down.

Trump says his Doral resort will no longer host G-7 after backlash

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[RoseMorninStar]

Good. It's definitely the right thing to do. He's been pushing the emoluments clause to the limit as it is. He makes enough money off of the US taxpayer due to his properties. I would imagine other world leaders would have had a problem with the emoluments clauses of their own countries, had the G7 been held at the Doral.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Tomorrow could be the big day in the impeachment process, as William Taylor, the acting ambassador to Ukraine is set to testify. He is the one that the sent the text message saying that it was crazy to withheld aid to Ukraine to help with a political campaign. If he is able to provide concrete reasons why he believed that to be the case, that could be the tipping point.

Of course, it is more likely that whatever his reasons are, they will not be accepted by most Republicans. But we'll see (hopefully, eventually).

[RoseMorninStar]

I had read that Trump had asked Republicans to bring a censure resolution against Schiff (today). Would this be an attempt to block the Intelligence committee, and especially William Taylor's testimony (set for tomorrow)?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

No, its just noise. In point of fact, the Republicans had already brought a censure motion against Schiff, so Trump's call for them to do so was just noise. And of course there are not the votes to pass the motion.

[RoseMorninStar]

Yeah, upon further reading in Politico:

Republicans have released a resolution to censure Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff that is an embarrassment to the House of Representatives.

House Minority Leader Rep. Kevin McCarthy has taken every Trump complaint about Adam Schiff and put in a goofy resolution that is part Fox News and part Trump pander.

McCarthy made it clear on the House floor that his goals were to smear Schiff and the impeachment process, “But this resolution is about more than the actions of any one individual. When false evidence is entered into the official record or communicated directly to the American people, the People’s House loses the credibility it needs to function properly. If that credibility is not restored—if the American people cannot trust that the process will be fair and that information will be honestly shared—they will lose trust in the soundness of our system of government.”

(full resolution here)

Rep. McCarthy also suggested that impeaching a president who has confessed to his offenses is unfair, “That is what this resolution is all about: To protect the integrity of our proceedings, which censure is designed to do. To restore a process that is fair, objective, and fact-based. And to reassure the American people that the stakes and intensity of our current debate will not overwhelm their government.”
House Republicans are abusing the censure process to smear a colleague in a bid to save a corrupt president. The resolution is a laundry list of Trump conspiracies and Fox News gripes. Gambits like the one McCarthy is trying to pull off highlight the fact that Republicans can’t dispute the impeachment evidence, so they are trying to discredit the investigation.

There is no core to the Republican Party. The GOP’s backbone is non-existant. When scarecrow Trump gets swept into the dustbin of history, all that will remain is a Putin sized hole where the memories of Lincoln and Reagan used to be.

Um.. has McCarthy ever listened to Trump or read any of his tweets?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

While I don't disagree with that, and I generally like Schiff, I thought his "parody" description of the phone call was a stupid mistake.

[RoseMorninStar]

True, but again, have they taken a look/listen at the 'lead' the president has set? Not that a million stupid and foolish things done by one person makes it OK for another.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

In a normal world, this would be game, set and match. Republican members of Congress would be openly calling for the president to resign in order to avoid being removed from office. I hesitate to say something so adamant, but no reasonable person could possibly believe that the president did not grossly abuse his office and commit a crime by explicitly tying crucial military aid to an ally vulnerable to our most aggressive and dangerous adversary to "favors" that explicitly go to advancing the president's political campaign and attack a political rival.

US' Top Diplomat Taylor was told that Trump wanted aid withheld until Ukraine said it would investigate Biden

Here is a link to the full text of Ambassador Taylor's opening statement: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/22/politics ... index.html

I urge anyone who wants to know what happened to read it in full. It is an incredibly detailed description.