Poor Bilbo gets five trips to answer the door, and a lot of the humour is in the asides and on-going conversation with those already arrived so I don't think we should cut much out at all; the place to cut, perhaps, would be after Gandalf arrives and says
"Quite a merry gathering! I hope there is something left for the late-comers to eat and drink!"
Rather than have all the different orders placed, at that point we could go to a montage of Bilbo bringing platefuls and jugs from the pantries...
Let's write a Hobbit script of our own!
-
ToshoftheWuffingas
- Posts: 1579
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm
I've had a look through and counted up around 200 separate scenes, events, incidents that convey the story. That is not counting any White Council, Dol Guldur or back story detail. Of course certain amounts of that can be simplified, amalgamated or skipped.
I would warn against taking the book chapter by chapter chronologically. In my opinion, to do so runs the risk of descending to reciting the book. A screen treatment can play with storylines for added effect.
I would warn against taking the book chapter by chapter chronologically. In my opinion, to do so runs the risk of descending to reciting the book. A screen treatment can play with storylines for added effect.
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Prim, please kibitz. We need ideas. We need insight. Right now, we need a cup of tea . . . and some seed cakes, if you have any . . .
I know the spacing of the Dwarves arrivals as they show up in the book won't work for film, but that's why we have great writers here. I can't wait to see what Alatar comes up with to keep it moving. I'm kind of afraid that any suggestion might be seen as taking over his creative space.
This brings up another point that hasn't been addressed; do we want to work by chapters or are some of our chapters so involved and long that we should split them between two writers, or even more? I know on some of the other scripts we worked on at the old blog we split chapters or worked in pairs for some parts, and it made the writing less intimidating. Then again, The Hobbit isn't The SIL, so there we go.
I know the spacing of the Dwarves arrivals as they show up in the book won't work for film, but that's why we have great writers here. I can't wait to see what Alatar comes up with to keep it moving. I'm kind of afraid that any suggestion might be seen as taking over his creative space.
This brings up another point that hasn't been addressed; do we want to work by chapters or are some of our chapters so involved and long that we should split them between two writers, or even more? I know on some of the other scripts we worked on at the old blog we split chapters or worked in pairs for some parts, and it made the writing less intimidating. Then again, The Hobbit isn't The SIL, so there we go.
Bite off more than you can chew. Then, chew it. Ask for seconds.
Tosh, once again I agree with you...
We have Al taking care of the opening sequence, which we all pretty much agreed should follow the book, but after that, it would make sense for us to lay down some sort of running order for proposed scenes.
The concensus appears to be that we want most of the background stuff to be slotted in where it occurs already within the Unexpected Party chapter. That leaves us with the White Council storyline to be woven in:
Unless we are going to include back history to that, such as referencing earlier meetngs, or Saruman's story arc, then I presume we would not touch on the White Council until Rivendell at the earliest, with the majority of the scenes falling after Gandalf leaves the party at the edge of Mirkwood.
Tosh, have you come up with any sort of draft list of necessary scenes as yet, which we could discuss?
We have Al taking care of the opening sequence, which we all pretty much agreed should follow the book, but after that, it would make sense for us to lay down some sort of running order for proposed scenes.
The concensus appears to be that we want most of the background stuff to be slotted in where it occurs already within the Unexpected Party chapter. That leaves us with the White Council storyline to be woven in:
Unless we are going to include back history to that, such as referencing earlier meetngs, or Saruman's story arc, then I presume we would not touch on the White Council until Rivendell at the earliest, with the majority of the scenes falling after Gandalf leaves the party at the edge of Mirkwood.
Tosh, have you come up with any sort of draft list of necessary scenes as yet, which we could discuss?
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
-
ToshoftheWuffingas
- Posts: 1579
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm
I have a list of 'scenes' scrawled down on scrap paper but it is not a workable list at all yet. I started by listing each occurrence that advanced the story, some sketchily, some in more detail. I have to do some thinking on this.
It's not just interweaving of storylines; one can also set small references early on that gain added weight later in the story. So one has to think ahead all the time. I popped a tiny moment in to the second episode of LOTR that I intended to bear fruit in the tower of Cirith Ungol. I tried to do the same with several other elements too.
It's not just interweaving of storylines; one can also set small references early on that gain added weight later in the story. So one has to think ahead all the time. I popped a tiny moment in to the second episode of LOTR that I intended to bear fruit in the tower of Cirith Ungol. I tried to do the same with several other elements too.
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Tosh, it sounds like you're a script writer after my own heart. I'd love to see your list of scenes, and it would give all of us a good place to work off of.
Now for some more good news; my crazy work schedule is lightening up and I'll be able to start participating more actively and writing a bit more within the week. Yeah!
Now for some more good news; my crazy work schedule is lightening up and I'll be able to start participating more actively and writing a bit more within the week. Yeah!
Bite off more than you can chew. Then, chew it. Ask for seconds.
A small beginning....
Narrator: In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort. This hobbit was a very well-to-do hobbit, and his name was Baggins. The Bagginses had lived in the neighbourhood of The Hill for time out of mind, and people considered them very respectable, not only because most of them were rich, but also because they never had any adventures or did anything unexpected...
During the above camera flies in from outside world, showing how distant and unimportant the Shire is, as the camera flies over Bywater bridge and up to The Hill. Bilbo is sitting on the same bench that he will share with Gandalf overlooking the Party field, but alone this time, smoking and sending smoke rings into the distance. We follow one smoke ring as it floats away only to be dispersed by a staff, or hat on the word "unexpected.
Bilbo (surprised): Oh! Hello! I mean, Good Morning!
Gandalf (gruff but teasing, enjoying Bilbo's confusion): What do you mean? Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is morning to be good on?
Bilbo (even more startled, but attempting to recover): Well, All of them at once I suppose! Will you have a fill of pipeweed?
Gandalf: No thank you! I am far to busy to blow smoke rings with you! I am looking for someone to share in... an Adventure!
Bilbo: An adventure? Disturbing things! We are plain quiet folk here. You might try over the hill or across the water. Good morning!
Gandalf: What a lot of things you do use Good morning for! Now you mean that you want to get rid of me, and that it won't be good till I move off!
Bilbo (Flustered): Not at all, not at all! I'm terribly sorry Mr...?
Gandalf: Gandalf
Bilbo: Mr Gandalf, but I really must be off, but do come to tea! Tomorrow? Why not tomorrow? COme tomorrow! Goodbye!
Bilbo edges away during the above until he gets to the door and slips inside on "Goodbye"
Cut to inside where we see Bilbo with his back to the door
Bilbo: What on earth did I ask him to tea for!
Cut to exterior. Gandalf chuckling to himself
Gandalf: Yes Mr Baggins. You'll do very nicely indeed.
Interior Bag End, next day. Bilbo is pottering aroundbaking some seed cakes when he hears a knock on the door
Bilbo: Goodness Gracious! I didn't think he'd come!
Bilbo rushes to the door and opens it saying:
Bilbo: I'm terribly sorry Mr. Gandalf...
But instead he sees two dwarves:
Balin (stepping in): Balin at your service
Dwalin: Dwalin at your service
Bilbo: Er.. Bilbo Baggins at yours! Er... I was just about to take tea. Will you join me?
Balin: Of course!
They are just seated when there is another knock. Bilbo rushes to the door and opens it saying:
Bilbo: "Mr Gand.."
Ori (indicating himself and his brothers): Ori, Nori and Dori at your service!
Bilbo: Mr Baggins at yours... do come in and have some tea!
Nori: A little beer for me
Dori: And some seed cake if you have any!
They hand their cloaks to Bilbo and head into the drawing room to greet Balin and Dwalin
Bilbo starts to hang up the cloaks on pegs and is just finishing when there is another knock on the door
Bilbo (opening the door): What can I do for you, my dwarves?
Kili: Kili at your service!
Fili: and Fili!
Oin: Oin at your service
Gloin: Gloin at...
Bilbo: Yes Yes, At your's and your families!
Fili: Let us join the throng!
Bilbo: Throng!?
The door knocks almost immediately, and bilbo spins around in shock
Knock on the door again and Bilbo runs out and yanks the door open, only for four dwarves to fall in, Thorin on the bottom with Bifur, Bofur and Bombur on top, and Gandalf standing behind chuckling to himself
Gandalf: Carefully! Carefully! It is not like you, Bilbo, to keep friends waiting on the mat, and then open the door all of a sudden! Let me introduce Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, and especially Thorin!
Narrator: In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort. This hobbit was a very well-to-do hobbit, and his name was Baggins. The Bagginses had lived in the neighbourhood of The Hill for time out of mind, and people considered them very respectable, not only because most of them were rich, but also because they never had any adventures or did anything unexpected...
During the above camera flies in from outside world, showing how distant and unimportant the Shire is, as the camera flies over Bywater bridge and up to The Hill. Bilbo is sitting on the same bench that he will share with Gandalf overlooking the Party field, but alone this time, smoking and sending smoke rings into the distance. We follow one smoke ring as it floats away only to be dispersed by a staff, or hat on the word "unexpected.
Bilbo (surprised): Oh! Hello! I mean, Good Morning!
Gandalf (gruff but teasing, enjoying Bilbo's confusion): What do you mean? Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is morning to be good on?
Bilbo (even more startled, but attempting to recover): Well, All of them at once I suppose! Will you have a fill of pipeweed?
Gandalf: No thank you! I am far to busy to blow smoke rings with you! I am looking for someone to share in... an Adventure!
Bilbo: An adventure? Disturbing things! We are plain quiet folk here. You might try over the hill or across the water. Good morning!
Gandalf: What a lot of things you do use Good morning for! Now you mean that you want to get rid of me, and that it won't be good till I move off!
Bilbo (Flustered): Not at all, not at all! I'm terribly sorry Mr...?
Gandalf: Gandalf
Bilbo: Mr Gandalf, but I really must be off, but do come to tea! Tomorrow? Why not tomorrow? COme tomorrow! Goodbye!
Bilbo edges away during the above until he gets to the door and slips inside on "Goodbye"
Cut to inside where we see Bilbo with his back to the door
Bilbo: What on earth did I ask him to tea for!
Cut to exterior. Gandalf chuckling to himself
Gandalf: Yes Mr Baggins. You'll do very nicely indeed.
Interior Bag End, next day. Bilbo is pottering aroundbaking some seed cakes when he hears a knock on the door
Bilbo: Goodness Gracious! I didn't think he'd come!
Bilbo rushes to the door and opens it saying:
Bilbo: I'm terribly sorry Mr. Gandalf...
But instead he sees two dwarves:
Balin (stepping in): Balin at your service
Dwalin: Dwalin at your service
Bilbo: Er.. Bilbo Baggins at yours! Er... I was just about to take tea. Will you join me?
Balin: Of course!
They are just seated when there is another knock. Bilbo rushes to the door and opens it saying:
Bilbo: "Mr Gand.."
Ori (indicating himself and his brothers): Ori, Nori and Dori at your service!
Bilbo: Mr Baggins at yours... do come in and have some tea!
Nori: A little beer for me
Dori: And some seed cake if you have any!
They hand their cloaks to Bilbo and head into the drawing room to greet Balin and Dwalin
Bilbo starts to hang up the cloaks on pegs and is just finishing when there is another knock on the door
Bilbo (opening the door): What can I do for you, my dwarves?
Kili: Kili at your service!
Fili: and Fili!
Oin: Oin at your service
Gloin: Gloin at...
Bilbo: Yes Yes, At your's and your families!
Fili: Let us join the throng!
Bilbo: Throng!?
The door knocks almost immediately, and bilbo spins around in shock
Knock on the door again and Bilbo runs out and yanks the door open, only for four dwarves to fall in, Thorin on the bottom with Bifur, Bofur and Bombur on top, and Gandalf standing behind chuckling to himself
Gandalf: Carefully! Carefully! It is not like you, Bilbo, to keep friends waiting on the mat, and then open the door all of a sudden! Let me introduce Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, and especially Thorin!
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
Thanks for getting us started, Al! Great effort. 
It's good to have something down "on paper" so to speak, to work with.
I like the way you handle the very opening, with the aerial view and the idea of seeing how The Shire forms a very small part of a much wider world. And Gandalf's entrance dispersing the smoke ring is great too - presumably we do not see him until that very moment when Bilbo looks up to see him standing there?
One of the things that struck me on re-reading the opening chapter is how we are immediately into the story and the idea of this adventure about to take place. This becomes even more apparent when translated to film, particularly without using a prologue to provide some background.
Being written for children invariably means the story moves at quite a lick, compared to the opening of FotR. Although I agee that we need to cut some of the verbage, for various reasons, I'm just wondering if we need to put some of the more characterful dialogue back in just to slow the pace a little?
For example, we have no idea of how come Gandalf came to think of Bilbo for this task, so I thought we should include some illustration of Gandalf's connection with the Shire...
I've taken the liberty of adding in a few lines ( in red) to your draft, to draw out the scenes just a little bit more. Simply suggestions to aid discussion - feel free to disagree and discard!
* * * * * * *
Narrator: In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort. This hobbit was a very well-to-do hobbit, and his name was Baggins. The Bagginses had lived in the neighbourhood of The Hill for time out of mind, and people considered them very respectable, not only because most of them were rich, but also because they never had any adventures or did anything unexpected...
During the above camera flies in from outside world, showing how distant and unimportant the Shire is, as the camera flies over Bywater bridge and up to The Hill. Bilbo is sitting on the same bench that he will share with Gandalf overlooking the Party field, but alone this time, smoking and sending smoke rings into the distance. We follow one smoke ring as it floats away only to be dispersed by a staff, or hat on the word "unexpected. Bilbo looks up to see an old man with a staff, etc.
Bilbo (surprised): Oh! Hello! I mean, Good Morning!
Gandalf (gruff but teasing, enjoying Bilbo's confusion): What do you mean? Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is morning to be good on?
Bilbo (even more startled, but attempting to recover): Well, All of them at once I suppose! Will you have a fill of pipeweed?
Gandalf: No thank you! I am far to busy to blow smoke rings with you! I am looking for someone to share in... an Adventure!
Bilbo: An adventure? Nasty, disturbing, uncomfortable things! We are plain quiet folk: we don’t want any adventures here, thank you! You might try over The Hill or across The Water. Good morning!
Gandalf: What a lot of things you do use Good morning for! Now you mean that you want to get rid of me, and that it won't be good till I move off!
Bilbo (Flustered): Not at all, not at all, my dear..er…let me see, I don’t think I know your name?
Gandalf: Ah, but I know your name, Mr Bilbo Baggins. And you do know my name, though you don’t remember that I belong to it. I am Gandalf and Gandalf means me!
Bilbo: Gandalf, Gandalf! Good gracious me! No the fellow who used to tell such wonderful tales at parties, and made such particularly excellent fireworks? Dear me, not the Gandalf who was responsible for so many quiet lads and lasses going off into the Blue for mad adventures like visiting Elves or sailing in ships?
Gandalf: The one and the same…
Bilbo: Bless me, life used to be quite inter – I mean, you used to upset things badly in these parts once upon a time. I beg your pardon, but I had no idea you were still in business.
Gandalf: (amused) Where else should I be? All the same, I am pleased to find you remember something about me and that is not without hope. So I will give you what you asked for.
Bilbo: (puzzled) I beg your pardon, I haven’t asked for anything!
Gandalf: Yes you have! You’ve asked for my pardon twice now! I give it you. In fact I will go so far as to send you on this adventure. Very amusing for me, very good for you – and profitable too, very likely. [under his breath] if you ever get over it.
Bilbo: Sorry, I don’t want any adventures, thank you. Not today. Good morning to you, Mr Gandalf, but I really must be off, but do come to tea! Tomorrow? Why not tomorrow? Come tomorrow! Goodbye!
Bilbo edges away during the above until he gets to the door and slips inside on "Goodbye"
Cut to inside where we see Bilbo with his back to the door
Bilbo: What on earth did I ask him to tea for!
Cut to exterior. Gandalf chuckling to himself
Gandalf: Yes Mr Baggins. You'll do very nicely indeed. [steps up and scratches sign on Bilbo’s beautifully painted front door, stands back to admire it, grunts to himself and turns away. Fade.]
* * *
Fade into Interior Bag End, next day. Bilbo is pottering around baking some seed cakes when he hears a knock on the door
Bilbo: Goodness Gracious! I didn't think he'd come!
Bilbo rushes to the door and opens it saying:
Bilbo: I'm so sorry to keep you waiting, Mr. Gandalf...
But instead he sees two dwarves:
Balin (stepping in): Balin at your service
Dwalin: Dwalin at your service
Bilbo: Er.. Bilbo Baggins at yours! Er... I was just about to take tea. Will you join me?
Balin: Of course! The two dwarves hang their cloaks up on the nearest pegs.
They are just seated when there is another knock. Bilbo rushes to the door and opens it saying:
Bilbo: Mr Gand..
Ori (indicating himself and his brothers): Ori, Nori and Dori at your service!
Bilbo: Mr Baggins at yours... do come in and have some tea!
Nori: A little beer for me
Dori: And some seed cake if you have any!
Ori: (eying the cloaks already hanging in Bilbo’s hall) I see they have begun to arrive already…
They hand their cloaks to a flustered Bilbo and head into the drawing room to greet Balin and Dwalin
Bilbo starts to hang up the cloaks on pegs and is just finishing when there is another knock on the door
Bilbo (opening the door): What can I do for you, my dwarves?
Kili: Kili at your service!
Fili: and Fili!
Oin: Oin at your service
Gloin: Gloin at...
Bilbo: Yes Yes, At yours and your families!
Fili: Let us join the throng!
Bilbo: Throng!?
The door knocks almost immediately, and Bilbo spins around in shock.
Bilbo: (dazed) someone at the door…
Fili: Some four I should say by the sound, besides we saw them coming along behind us in the distance.
Knock on the door again and Bilbo runs out and yanks the door open, only for four dwarves to fall in, Thorin on the bottom with Bifur, Bofur and Bombur on top, and Gandalf standing behind chuckling to himself
Gandalf: Carefully! Carefully! It is not like you, Bilbo, to keep friends waiting on the mat, and then open the door all of a sudden! Let me introduce Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, and especially Thorin!
It's good to have something down "on paper" so to speak, to work with.I like the way you handle the very opening, with the aerial view and the idea of seeing how The Shire forms a very small part of a much wider world. And Gandalf's entrance dispersing the smoke ring is great too - presumably we do not see him until that very moment when Bilbo looks up to see him standing there?
One of the things that struck me on re-reading the opening chapter is how we are immediately into the story and the idea of this adventure about to take place. This becomes even more apparent when translated to film, particularly without using a prologue to provide some background.
Being written for children invariably means the story moves at quite a lick, compared to the opening of FotR. Although I agee that we need to cut some of the verbage, for various reasons, I'm just wondering if we need to put some of the more characterful dialogue back in just to slow the pace a little?
For example, we have no idea of how come Gandalf came to think of Bilbo for this task, so I thought we should include some illustration of Gandalf's connection with the Shire...
I've taken the liberty of adding in a few lines ( in red) to your draft, to draw out the scenes just a little bit more. Simply suggestions to aid discussion - feel free to disagree and discard!
* * * * * * *
Narrator: In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort. This hobbit was a very well-to-do hobbit, and his name was Baggins. The Bagginses had lived in the neighbourhood of The Hill for time out of mind, and people considered them very respectable, not only because most of them were rich, but also because they never had any adventures or did anything unexpected...
During the above camera flies in from outside world, showing how distant and unimportant the Shire is, as the camera flies over Bywater bridge and up to The Hill. Bilbo is sitting on the same bench that he will share with Gandalf overlooking the Party field, but alone this time, smoking and sending smoke rings into the distance. We follow one smoke ring as it floats away only to be dispersed by a staff, or hat on the word "unexpected. Bilbo looks up to see an old man with a staff, etc.
Bilbo (surprised): Oh! Hello! I mean, Good Morning!
Gandalf (gruff but teasing, enjoying Bilbo's confusion): What do you mean? Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is morning to be good on?
Bilbo (even more startled, but attempting to recover): Well, All of them at once I suppose! Will you have a fill of pipeweed?
Gandalf: No thank you! I am far to busy to blow smoke rings with you! I am looking for someone to share in... an Adventure!
Bilbo: An adventure? Nasty, disturbing, uncomfortable things! We are plain quiet folk: we don’t want any adventures here, thank you! You might try over The Hill or across The Water. Good morning!
Gandalf: What a lot of things you do use Good morning for! Now you mean that you want to get rid of me, and that it won't be good till I move off!
Bilbo (Flustered): Not at all, not at all, my dear..er…let me see, I don’t think I know your name?
Gandalf: Ah, but I know your name, Mr Bilbo Baggins. And you do know my name, though you don’t remember that I belong to it. I am Gandalf and Gandalf means me!
Bilbo: Gandalf, Gandalf! Good gracious me! No the fellow who used to tell such wonderful tales at parties, and made such particularly excellent fireworks? Dear me, not the Gandalf who was responsible for so many quiet lads and lasses going off into the Blue for mad adventures like visiting Elves or sailing in ships?
Gandalf: The one and the same…
Bilbo: Bless me, life used to be quite inter – I mean, you used to upset things badly in these parts once upon a time. I beg your pardon, but I had no idea you were still in business.
Gandalf: (amused) Where else should I be? All the same, I am pleased to find you remember something about me and that is not without hope. So I will give you what you asked for.
Bilbo: (puzzled) I beg your pardon, I haven’t asked for anything!
Gandalf: Yes you have! You’ve asked for my pardon twice now! I give it you. In fact I will go so far as to send you on this adventure. Very amusing for me, very good for you – and profitable too, very likely. [under his breath] if you ever get over it.
Bilbo: Sorry, I don’t want any adventures, thank you. Not today. Good morning to you, Mr Gandalf, but I really must be off, but do come to tea! Tomorrow? Why not tomorrow? Come tomorrow! Goodbye!
Bilbo edges away during the above until he gets to the door and slips inside on "Goodbye"
Cut to inside where we see Bilbo with his back to the door
Bilbo: What on earth did I ask him to tea for!
Cut to exterior. Gandalf chuckling to himself
Gandalf: Yes Mr Baggins. You'll do very nicely indeed. [steps up and scratches sign on Bilbo’s beautifully painted front door, stands back to admire it, grunts to himself and turns away. Fade.]
* * *
Fade into Interior Bag End, next day. Bilbo is pottering around baking some seed cakes when he hears a knock on the door
Bilbo: Goodness Gracious! I didn't think he'd come!
Bilbo rushes to the door and opens it saying:
Bilbo: I'm so sorry to keep you waiting, Mr. Gandalf...
But instead he sees two dwarves:
Balin (stepping in): Balin at your service
Dwalin: Dwalin at your service
Bilbo: Er.. Bilbo Baggins at yours! Er... I was just about to take tea. Will you join me?
Balin: Of course! The two dwarves hang their cloaks up on the nearest pegs.
They are just seated when there is another knock. Bilbo rushes to the door and opens it saying:
Bilbo: Mr Gand..
Ori (indicating himself and his brothers): Ori, Nori and Dori at your service!
Bilbo: Mr Baggins at yours... do come in and have some tea!
Nori: A little beer for me
Dori: And some seed cake if you have any!
Ori: (eying the cloaks already hanging in Bilbo’s hall) I see they have begun to arrive already…
They hand their cloaks to a flustered Bilbo and head into the drawing room to greet Balin and Dwalin
Bilbo starts to hang up the cloaks on pegs and is just finishing when there is another knock on the door
Bilbo (opening the door): What can I do for you, my dwarves?
Kili: Kili at your service!
Fili: and Fili!
Oin: Oin at your service
Gloin: Gloin at...
Bilbo: Yes Yes, At yours and your families!
Fili: Let us join the throng!
Bilbo: Throng!?
The door knocks almost immediately, and Bilbo spins around in shock.
Bilbo: (dazed) someone at the door…
Fili: Some four I should say by the sound, besides we saw them coming along behind us in the distance.
Knock on the door again and Bilbo runs out and yanks the door open, only for four dwarves to fall in, Thorin on the bottom with Bifur, Bofur and Bombur on top, and Gandalf standing behind chuckling to himself
Gandalf: Carefully! Carefully! It is not like you, Bilbo, to keep friends waiting on the mat, and then open the door all of a sudden! Let me introduce Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, and especially Thorin!
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
Well, that's pretty much the entire dialogue as written. I personally felt it needed trimming, but of course its just my opinion. Essentially, what you've done is simply to remove my edits and give us back the full piece. If that's the plan then why are we adapting at all?
I chose to leave out the parts I did to move the piece on. Its not like I simply forgot them.
Please note, I'm not miffed, I just fail to see the point of just writing out the book dialogue exactly as written but in script form. That's not adaptation, its just "filming the book".
Thoughts?
I chose to leave out the parts I did to move the piece on. Its not like I simply forgot them.
Please note, I'm not miffed, I just fail to see the point of just writing out the book dialogue exactly as written but in script form. That's not adaptation, its just "filming the book".
Thoughts?
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
-
ToshoftheWuffingas
- Posts: 1579
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm
I made a start on this in the last few days. I started from the beginning, not to compete with Alartar but to get a feel for it and to get into the swing of it. Though I have got to the end of the first chapter, I thought I'd post what I've written up as far as Alatar has posted as a contrast. It helps show how these things can be done in different ways. I have been more prolix than Alatar, both in description and in dialogue. Alatar has trimmed the dialogue far more than me. This is only the first draft. I would typically make two handwritten drafts, amending heavily each time before transferring to a digital format with another set of amendments so this is fairly rough still. My first time assessment has the treatment for the whole chapter at around 25 minutes.
I have felt free to call on the versions in Unfinished Tales. Nor do I mind a little mild invention providing it works.
I have felt free to call on the versions in Unfinished Tales. Nor do I mind a little mild invention providing it works.
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ToshoftheWuffingas
- Posts: 1579
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm
The screen opens to a close-up of a thatched eave. Small patches of snow drip from the edge and a line of chattering sparrows shift about.
Cut to a cart and pony near a timber framed building. A stocky long-bearded dwarf loads a large pile of charcoal on it. The camera pulls back to show another dwarf sat on a stool exchanging a sickle and saw for loaves of bread and a small cheese with a taller lean man. There are pools of water and slush on the ground. Another dwarf comes into shot with a large sack on his back and loads it on to the cart. He puts his hand in and scatters a little grain on the ground. A very brief cut of the sparrows flying down from the roof.
Cut to a closer view of the two dwarves talking.
The seated dwarf (Bifur): ' Where is Thorin?'
The newcomer (Bofur): 'He is at the inn with the wizard.'
Cut to the dark interior of an inn. Two figures face each other at a table. One is a grim faced dwarf facing the camera. Light from a window is on his face. His hands lay flat on the table. The other facing away from camera is an indistinct shadowed figure with a large hood.
Thorin: 'So what is your advice?'
Gandalf (still indistinct): 'You need stealth. He can smell a dwarf and hear your clodhopping boots long before you can get close to him. I know a companion for you; one with professional stealth.
Thorin: 'A thief? A paid thief?'
Gandalf: 'A hobbit.'
Cut to two more dwarves near a fireplace with mugs of ale.
Gloin: 'A hobbit? And bursts into laughter. Balin joins in and shakes his head.
Cut back to Thorin looking puzzled: 'What is a hobbit?
Cut to a bright sunny morning, long shadows lay before a bright coloured round door set into a grass slope. The camera pulls back a little to show a short path then travels to the left around the slope till it comes to a row of round windows with spring bulbs beneath them in window boxes. One of the windows is wide open. The camera travels up to a window. Cut to inside and the sunlight comes into the window. We hear the song of a thrush. Pan round the room showing the curved walls and ceiling. Bilbo appears dressed in a silk dressing gown scratching his head and yawning. Cut to Bilbo filling a kettle and putting it on an iron range and spooning tea into a teapot, still yawning. We hear Gandalf's voice:
'In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell; nor yet a dry bare sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or eat; it was a hobbit hole and that means comfort.'
The opening credits come up: J R R Tolkien's The Hobbit etc. As they run we see Bilbo preparing his breakfast, pouring and stirring his tea and opening his letters.
When the credits finish, cut to Bilbo standing outside, his round door behind him, sun on his face, puffing on a long curved pipe. He smiles contentedly. He looks to one side, touches his forehead and calls out: 'Good morning.'
Cut to Gandalf standing on the short path with staff, scarf, pointed hat and long boots.
Gandalf: 'What do you mean? Do you wish me a good morning or mean it is good whether I want it or not, or that you feel good or that it is a morning to be good on?'
Cut to Bilbo looking upwards thinking a second or two: 'Er, all of them at once. And it's a fine morning for a pipe of tobacco. If you have a pipe borrow some of mine and sit down here in the sun. There's no hurry.'
Bilbo turns back and sits down on a bench near the door. He blows out a smoke ring and grins. We see Gandalf's back come into view as he looks down on Bilbo.
Gandalf: 'Very pretty but I have no time for that. I am looking for someone to share an adventure.'
Bilbo, nonchalantly: 'We are a plain folk in the Shire with no time for adventures. They only make you late for dinner. What does anyone see in them?'
Gandalf stays still not saying anything, still looking down on Bilbo. Bilbo gets out a letter and pretends to read it ignoring the wizard. After a second or two he looks up with mild irritation.
Bilbo: 'Good morning! Try over the hill.' He gestures.
Gandalf looking down: 'Now your 'Good morning' means it won't be good until I move off.'
Cut to side view of them both.
Bilbo, caught in impoliteness: ' No, not at all my dear sir. Er, I don't believe I know your name.'
Gandalf: 'I am Gandalf, Mr Bilbo Baggins. I never thought I'd live to be 'Good morninged' by Belladonna Took's son as if I were selling buttons from door to door.'
Bilbo rising: 'Not Gandalf the wandering wizard! Not the Gandalf who told tales of goblins and princesses; who set off such wonderful fireworks like flowers in the sky and who led young hobbits off to see Elves and ships? I beg your pardon. Life used to be interes.... er upset badly back in those days.'
Gandalf bends and pats Bilbo: 'You have my pardon and I will send you on this adventure. It will be good for you and may even be profitable if you ever get over it.'
Bilbo edges carefully past Gandalf and scuttles to his door and opens it. Halfway in he calls out:
Bilbo: 'Sorry! I don't want any adventures today thank you.' He hurries in and slams the door. It opens again and his head pokes out.
Bilbo: 'But please come to tea one day, any time, tomorrow, yes tomorrow. Goodbye!' The door slams again.
Cut to Bilbo inside cutting a slice of cake with shaking hands: What in Middle-earth did I ask him to tea for?'
Cut to Gandalf outside. He raises his staff and traces a rune on Bilbo's door with narrow lines of fire then turns to go. Fade to black.
Fade in to Bilbo in different clothes busy writing a letter at a table. Beside him is a cup of tea and a half eaten slice of pork pie. A loud ring of a bell is heard and Bilbo looks up.
Bilbo: 'Oh yes, Gandalf!' He rises and puts a fresh cup and saucer on the table and fills it from the teapot. He slices another piece from a large pork pie on to a plate then hurries to the door.
Cut to his back at the front door as he opens it. Cut to Dwalin framed in the open door, a dwarf with blue rinsed beard and a green hood. He has a small axe at his belt.
Cut to Bilbo's confused face as the dwarf walks past him and puts his cloak on to some coat hooks.
Dwalin: 'Dwalin at your service.'
Bilbo: 'Bilbo Baggins at yours. Er I am about to take tea with someone. Pray join us.'
Dwalin goes to the door and beckons. Balin appears who we saw in the inn, a white beard and a red hood. He also puts his cloak on the hooks.
Balin: 'Balin, Dwalin's brother at your service too. A little beer for me please. And some seed cake if you have any.'
Cut to the two dwarves sitting together as Bilbo pours beer from a large jug into a mug for Balin. The bell goes again.
Bilbo: 'Ah that will be....'
Cut to the open door again and two young short bearded dwarves, arms round each others shoulders and with broad friendly grins.
'Fili.' and 'Kili' and together, 'at your service.'
Cut to Bilbo as they pass him. He mutters: 'At yours and your families.'
Fili, looking at the cloaks: ' They have begun to arrive.'
Bilbo softly to himself: 'Begun?'
Cut to the inside of the front door once more. Another ring of the bell. Cut to the open door frame and five more dwarves outside. One by one they approach the camera and pass.
In turn: 'Dori.'
'Nori'
'Ori.'
'Oin' and
'Gloin'
Cut to Bilbo holding the door: 'At your families service.'
Cut to a noisy room with Bilbo scurrying around handing out plates of food and mugs of drink to chattering dwarves. A loud banging is heard. Bilbo looks up with a scowl, rolls up his sleeves and stamps towards the door.
Cut to Gandalf outside removing the large rune from Bilbo's door with the tip of his staff. He then ushers four more dwarves towards it. One is fat. One is tall. As they reach the door it opens and they tumble in. Cut to the tall dwarf recovering his dignity in the passage as the others pile their cloaks on Bilbo's arm. He looks around. Gandalf stoops and enters too. He hangs his hat on top of the cloaks on the wall.
Gandalf: 'I think I'll have some red wine. Some for you too Thorin? ' Thorin nods.
A call from down the passageway: 'And more cakes and ale!'
Cut to a cart and pony near a timber framed building. A stocky long-bearded dwarf loads a large pile of charcoal on it. The camera pulls back to show another dwarf sat on a stool exchanging a sickle and saw for loaves of bread and a small cheese with a taller lean man. There are pools of water and slush on the ground. Another dwarf comes into shot with a large sack on his back and loads it on to the cart. He puts his hand in and scatters a little grain on the ground. A very brief cut of the sparrows flying down from the roof.
Cut to a closer view of the two dwarves talking.
The seated dwarf (Bifur): ' Where is Thorin?'
The newcomer (Bofur): 'He is at the inn with the wizard.'
Cut to the dark interior of an inn. Two figures face each other at a table. One is a grim faced dwarf facing the camera. Light from a window is on his face. His hands lay flat on the table. The other facing away from camera is an indistinct shadowed figure with a large hood.
Thorin: 'So what is your advice?'
Gandalf (still indistinct): 'You need stealth. He can smell a dwarf and hear your clodhopping boots long before you can get close to him. I know a companion for you; one with professional stealth.
Thorin: 'A thief? A paid thief?'
Gandalf: 'A hobbit.'
Cut to two more dwarves near a fireplace with mugs of ale.
Gloin: 'A hobbit? And bursts into laughter. Balin joins in and shakes his head.
Cut back to Thorin looking puzzled: 'What is a hobbit?
Cut to a bright sunny morning, long shadows lay before a bright coloured round door set into a grass slope. The camera pulls back a little to show a short path then travels to the left around the slope till it comes to a row of round windows with spring bulbs beneath them in window boxes. One of the windows is wide open. The camera travels up to a window. Cut to inside and the sunlight comes into the window. We hear the song of a thrush. Pan round the room showing the curved walls and ceiling. Bilbo appears dressed in a silk dressing gown scratching his head and yawning. Cut to Bilbo filling a kettle and putting it on an iron range and spooning tea into a teapot, still yawning. We hear Gandalf's voice:
'In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell; nor yet a dry bare sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or eat; it was a hobbit hole and that means comfort.'
The opening credits come up: J R R Tolkien's The Hobbit etc. As they run we see Bilbo preparing his breakfast, pouring and stirring his tea and opening his letters.
When the credits finish, cut to Bilbo standing outside, his round door behind him, sun on his face, puffing on a long curved pipe. He smiles contentedly. He looks to one side, touches his forehead and calls out: 'Good morning.'
Cut to Gandalf standing on the short path with staff, scarf, pointed hat and long boots.
Gandalf: 'What do you mean? Do you wish me a good morning or mean it is good whether I want it or not, or that you feel good or that it is a morning to be good on?'
Cut to Bilbo looking upwards thinking a second or two: 'Er, all of them at once. And it's a fine morning for a pipe of tobacco. If you have a pipe borrow some of mine and sit down here in the sun. There's no hurry.'
Bilbo turns back and sits down on a bench near the door. He blows out a smoke ring and grins. We see Gandalf's back come into view as he looks down on Bilbo.
Gandalf: 'Very pretty but I have no time for that. I am looking for someone to share an adventure.'
Bilbo, nonchalantly: 'We are a plain folk in the Shire with no time for adventures. They only make you late for dinner. What does anyone see in them?'
Gandalf stays still not saying anything, still looking down on Bilbo. Bilbo gets out a letter and pretends to read it ignoring the wizard. After a second or two he looks up with mild irritation.
Bilbo: 'Good morning! Try over the hill.' He gestures.
Gandalf looking down: 'Now your 'Good morning' means it won't be good until I move off.'
Cut to side view of them both.
Bilbo, caught in impoliteness: ' No, not at all my dear sir. Er, I don't believe I know your name.'
Gandalf: 'I am Gandalf, Mr Bilbo Baggins. I never thought I'd live to be 'Good morninged' by Belladonna Took's son as if I were selling buttons from door to door.'
Bilbo rising: 'Not Gandalf the wandering wizard! Not the Gandalf who told tales of goblins and princesses; who set off such wonderful fireworks like flowers in the sky and who led young hobbits off to see Elves and ships? I beg your pardon. Life used to be interes.... er upset badly back in those days.'
Gandalf bends and pats Bilbo: 'You have my pardon and I will send you on this adventure. It will be good for you and may even be profitable if you ever get over it.'
Bilbo edges carefully past Gandalf and scuttles to his door and opens it. Halfway in he calls out:
Bilbo: 'Sorry! I don't want any adventures today thank you.' He hurries in and slams the door. It opens again and his head pokes out.
Bilbo: 'But please come to tea one day, any time, tomorrow, yes tomorrow. Goodbye!' The door slams again.
Cut to Bilbo inside cutting a slice of cake with shaking hands: What in Middle-earth did I ask him to tea for?'
Cut to Gandalf outside. He raises his staff and traces a rune on Bilbo's door with narrow lines of fire then turns to go. Fade to black.
Fade in to Bilbo in different clothes busy writing a letter at a table. Beside him is a cup of tea and a half eaten slice of pork pie. A loud ring of a bell is heard and Bilbo looks up.
Bilbo: 'Oh yes, Gandalf!' He rises and puts a fresh cup and saucer on the table and fills it from the teapot. He slices another piece from a large pork pie on to a plate then hurries to the door.
Cut to his back at the front door as he opens it. Cut to Dwalin framed in the open door, a dwarf with blue rinsed beard and a green hood. He has a small axe at his belt.
Cut to Bilbo's confused face as the dwarf walks past him and puts his cloak on to some coat hooks.
Dwalin: 'Dwalin at your service.'
Bilbo: 'Bilbo Baggins at yours. Er I am about to take tea with someone. Pray join us.'
Dwalin goes to the door and beckons. Balin appears who we saw in the inn, a white beard and a red hood. He also puts his cloak on the hooks.
Balin: 'Balin, Dwalin's brother at your service too. A little beer for me please. And some seed cake if you have any.'
Cut to the two dwarves sitting together as Bilbo pours beer from a large jug into a mug for Balin. The bell goes again.
Bilbo: 'Ah that will be....'
Cut to the open door again and two young short bearded dwarves, arms round each others shoulders and with broad friendly grins.
'Fili.' and 'Kili' and together, 'at your service.'
Cut to Bilbo as they pass him. He mutters: 'At yours and your families.'
Fili, looking at the cloaks: ' They have begun to arrive.'
Bilbo softly to himself: 'Begun?'
Cut to the inside of the front door once more. Another ring of the bell. Cut to the open door frame and five more dwarves outside. One by one they approach the camera and pass.
In turn: 'Dori.'
'Nori'
'Ori.'
'Oin' and
'Gloin'
Cut to Bilbo holding the door: 'At your families service.'
Cut to a noisy room with Bilbo scurrying around handing out plates of food and mugs of drink to chattering dwarves. A loud banging is heard. Bilbo looks up with a scowl, rolls up his sleeves and stamps towards the door.
Cut to Gandalf outside removing the large rune from Bilbo's door with the tip of his staff. He then ushers four more dwarves towards it. One is fat. One is tall. As they reach the door it opens and they tumble in. Cut to the tall dwarf recovering his dignity in the passage as the others pile their cloaks on Bilbo's arm. He looks around. Gandalf stoops and enters too. He hangs his hat on top of the cloaks on the wall.
Gandalf: 'I think I'll have some red wine. Some for you too Thorin? ' Thorin nods.
A call from down the passageway: 'And more cakes and ale!'
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Well, for someone who says he's not miffed you have certainly given that impression! Why have you exaggerated and said that I've given you back the full piece??? Of course I haven't. I left the majority of your edits in. The main place where I added in dialogue that you chose to leave out was where I felt we needed to explain Gandalf's relationship with the Shire. One line at least is my own, and a lot was trimmed so It's hardly copying the book word for word!Alatar wrote:Well, that's pretty much the entire dialogue as written. I personally felt it needed trimming, but of course its just my opinion. Essentially, what you've done is simply to remove my edits and give us back the full piece. If that's the plan then why are we adapting at all?
I chose to leave out the parts I did to move the piece on. Its not like I simply forgot them.
Please note, I'm not miffed, I just fail to see the point of just writing out the book dialogue exactly as written but in script form. That's not adaptation, its just "filming the book".
Thoughts?
I do think you have trimmed/modernised some of the dialogue unnecessarily and that we should keep as much of Tolkien's original where it works. The scenes as you presented them just seemed to move at a rate of knots, that's all, and they need pacing a little more.
Tosh I enjoyed your offering vey much. I do feel that we need that extra background expoisition to set the scene, as I tried to explain in my previous post, otherwise we just jump on the rollercoaster too quickly (I guess thats how Bilbo felt, though!) Your handling of the meeeting between Gandalf and Thorin is cleverly done and works very well.
One of the things I found worked well on our previous project, was to take the best bits of various versions and amalgamate them to get the result we wanted.
So for example here, we could use Tosh's opening, combine both ideas for the visuals under the opening narration, using Al's idea for Gandalf dispersing the smoke rings, etc. Tosh's dialogue gives us a more exapanded conversation between Bilbo and Gandalf, so that would be my preference, though I think Al has the edge on the Dwarves arrival (with my edits!
Just a suggestion, as always...I hope all wshing to participate in this collaborative project will be happy to voice their views also and not feel inhibited or worried about upsetting the "authors..." we need to be able to comment objectively and work through various ideas to see what works best.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
I genuinely am not upset Elentári, just confused. In honesty, I felt you had simply put back in the stuff I edited out, in which case what is the point in judiciously editing. To explain. I felt the "Beg your Pardon" bit along with all of the stuff about Gandalf's fireworks was too much. So I took it out. You put pretty much all of it back in. I don't think thats an exaggeration? In any case, I prefer Tosh's version to either of ours for that exchange. The pacing is better.
Regarding the "Some four I should say". I originally had that line in but cut it because I reduced to number of arrivals by one and felt it wasn't needed, but I have no objection to keeping it in. I like the idea of bringing the groups together by name. SO we get Balin and Dwalin, then Ori Nori and Dori, then Fili, Kili, Oin and Gloin, finally Bifor, Bofur and Bumbur with Thorin and Gandalf.
A couple of points. I had elected to use knocking instead of the bell for a few reasons. For one, I never remember seeing a bell at Bag End. I know its in the book, and I know Bilbo says something about "confounded visitors hanging on the bell" but I still don't remember seeing or hearing it. I had also decided to remove the curious sign scratched on the door, since I was intending on scrapping the whole "Burglar for hire" but as too unbelievable. Really, I think the whole Burglar business needs to be delicately handled from the outset.
I'd like to express once again though my distaste for starting the piece with a prologue of any kind. Tosh's start, while atmospheric, I feel adds no information while removing the iconic opening. In such a case I'd argue strongly for its removal.
ETA: Oh and I'd like to say that apart from the Opening I very much like Tosh's version.
Regarding the "Some four I should say". I originally had that line in but cut it because I reduced to number of arrivals by one and felt it wasn't needed, but I have no objection to keeping it in. I like the idea of bringing the groups together by name. SO we get Balin and Dwalin, then Ori Nori and Dori, then Fili, Kili, Oin and Gloin, finally Bifor, Bofur and Bumbur with Thorin and Gandalf.
A couple of points. I had elected to use knocking instead of the bell for a few reasons. For one, I never remember seeing a bell at Bag End. I know its in the book, and I know Bilbo says something about "confounded visitors hanging on the bell" but I still don't remember seeing or hearing it. I had also decided to remove the curious sign scratched on the door, since I was intending on scrapping the whole "Burglar for hire" but as too unbelievable. Really, I think the whole Burglar business needs to be delicately handled from the outset.
I'd like to express once again though my distaste for starting the piece with a prologue of any kind. Tosh's start, while atmospheric, I feel adds no information while removing the iconic opening. In such a case I'd argue strongly for its removal.
ETA: Oh and I'd like to say that apart from the Opening I very much like Tosh's version.
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
Well, I explained (twice) why I felt we needed to give a glimpse of there being a background connection between Gandalf and the Shire, and why he picked on Bilbo for this adventure.
Your version is so brief we basically have Gandalf saying (to paraphrase!) "Hey you, I want to send you on an adventure", and Bilbo saying "No thanks, try elsewhere...but come to tea tomorrow." The fireworks business shows that history between Gandalf and the Shire and will also resonate with that part of the audience familiar only with LotR.
The doorbell business I have no quibble with. The sign on the door, well, surely the dwarves need some way of knowing which house to call at, but it could be left out. I don't see the problem with "burglar" myself. It's an integral part of the tale and crops up throughout - how would you suggest handling it sensitively?
Your version is so brief we basically have Gandalf saying (to paraphrase!) "Hey you, I want to send you on an adventure", and Bilbo saying "No thanks, try elsewhere...but come to tea tomorrow." The fireworks business shows that history between Gandalf and the Shire and will also resonate with that part of the audience familiar only with LotR.
The doorbell business I have no quibble with. The sign on the door, well, surely the dwarves need some way of knowing which house to call at, but it could be left out. I don't see the problem with "burglar" myself. It's an integral part of the tale and crops up throughout - how would you suggest handling it sensitively?
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
Regarding the edit: You have explained twice, I just don't agree with the explanation. I think the new version has all the same problems, but with longer exposition to get nowhere. We still have "Hello, come on an adventure! No! Come to Tea". Thats a fault/feature of the book. But I'm willing to drop it.
Regarding the Burglar:
Not sure really. I think Tosh has the right idea with Gandalf explaining to Thorin about needing stealth, but perhaps happening during the Unexpected party.
Taking TOsh's starting point and editing slightly:
During discussion of the Dragon:
Gandalf: 'You need stealth. He can smell a dwarf and hear your clodhopping boots long before you can get close to him. You need a companion; one with professional stealth.
Thorin: 'A thief? A paid thief?'
Gandalf: 'Our hobbit.'
Bilbo (Dropping the teapot or something): What? Me!
Gandalf: You can say Burglar if you prefer, or "Professional Treasure Hunter", but you must admit that Hobbits can move silently at need?
Bilbo: Well, yes, but... Burglar?
Just a suggested option, to create the nickname of Burglar without all the secret signs and associated mucking about.
I think the new version has all the same problems, but with longer exposition to get nowhere. We still have "Hello, come on an adventure! No! Come to Tea". Thats a fault/feature of the book. But I'm willing to drop it.Regarding the Burglar:
Not sure really. I think Tosh has the right idea with Gandalf explaining to Thorin about needing stealth, but perhaps happening during the Unexpected party.
Taking TOsh's starting point and editing slightly:
During discussion of the Dragon:
Gandalf: 'You need stealth. He can smell a dwarf and hear your clodhopping boots long before you can get close to him. You need a companion; one with professional stealth.
Thorin: 'A thief? A paid thief?'
Gandalf: 'Our hobbit.'
Bilbo (Dropping the teapot or something): What? Me!
Gandalf: You can say Burglar if you prefer, or "Professional Treasure Hunter", but you must admit that Hobbits can move silently at need?
Bilbo: Well, yes, but... Burglar?
Just a suggested option, to create the nickname of Burglar without all the secret signs and associated mucking about.
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
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ToshoftheWuffingas
- Posts: 1579
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm
Personally I admire how Alatar has trimmed the dialogue. It's one of the hardest tasks. The temptation is always to copy what is in the book and that really doesn't work for screen, especially given the clumsiness of The Hobbit in comparison with the infinitely more polished LOTR. I myself think The Hobbit needs a far more adaptive hand to adjust its faults.
As to the beginning we all have different opinions and the original start is perfectly valid even if my preference is otherwise. I tried to pack a lot into those few seconds of introduction by the way.
First I tried to make it so brief that the opening together with the credits really still seems to occur in the Shire. Then I wanted to give some tiny taste of gritty realism before the idyllic Shire. It's the fag-end of winter. It helps to set the timescale of the action. I wanted to set up a subconscious theme of birds and their relationships with the characters. I tried to get the lowly, not quite desperate but struggling situation of the dwarves. I hope Thorin's stature and position was established and also the potential relationship and attitude of dwarves to hobbits. There is a mystery 'he' and intimations of danger and a contrast set up for the immediate portrayal of the comfy, safe, bourgeois Bag End.
ETA to catch the latest posts. The arrivals are fairly straightforward to capture. What gets really difficult is capturing the back and forth during the discussions of the evening, The back story, the first delineations of the dwarves, the constantly changing reactions (not always credible - struck by lightning) the singing, the private discussions between Thorin and Gandalf, the general sense of chaos as two worlds collide. In the book it's a bit of a mess. I remember having a similar problem with The Shadow of the Past and had to impose a totally different order of exposition to make it screen-dramatic. I have made an initial treatment but it isn't satisfactory to my mind yet. The important bit is Bilbo's conflicting urges.
As to the beginning we all have different opinions and the original start is perfectly valid even if my preference is otherwise. I tried to pack a lot into those few seconds of introduction by the way.
First I tried to make it so brief that the opening together with the credits really still seems to occur in the Shire. Then I wanted to give some tiny taste of gritty realism before the idyllic Shire. It's the fag-end of winter. It helps to set the timescale of the action. I wanted to set up a subconscious theme of birds and their relationships with the characters. I tried to get the lowly, not quite desperate but struggling situation of the dwarves. I hope Thorin's stature and position was established and also the potential relationship and attitude of dwarves to hobbits. There is a mystery 'he' and intimations of danger and a contrast set up for the immediate portrayal of the comfy, safe, bourgeois Bag End.
ETA to catch the latest posts. The arrivals are fairly straightforward to capture. What gets really difficult is capturing the back and forth during the discussions of the evening, The back story, the first delineations of the dwarves, the constantly changing reactions (not always credible - struck by lightning) the singing, the private discussions between Thorin and Gandalf, the general sense of chaos as two worlds collide. In the book it's a bit of a mess. I remember having a similar problem with The Shadow of the Past and had to impose a totally different order of exposition to make it screen-dramatic. I have made an initial treatment but it isn't satisfactory to my mind yet. The important bit is Bilbo's conflicting urges.
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On a first glance, both of these starts look great. I'm thrilled to finally be on the road, but I'm going to reserve serious comments until tomorrow when I'll have time to give these the attention they deserve. I haven't forgotten this; I'm just swamped at the moment.
Bravo to our starters! The first few scenes are always the hardest, at least for me, because the characters aren't established.
Bravo to our starters! The first few scenes are always the hardest, at least for me, because the characters aren't established.
Bite off more than you can chew. Then, chew it. Ask for seconds.
Al - one last ditch attempt at explaining my reasoning on the edit and then I'll ket it go: in your original edit, Bilbo and Gandalf are strangers: Gandalf amounts to nothing more than a cold caller...yet Bilbo invites him into his house the next day - it's like inviting a double-glazing salesman to tea even though you don't want his products!! Tosh's version keeps some of this "fireworks" interaction between the two, and enables Bilbo to realize that Gandalf is someone he should be familiar with...he feels somewhat obliged because Gandalf knew his grandmother!
I like what you have suggested re: the burglar. And I would strongly argue for using Tosh's openng! If, as you have suggested, one shouldn't simply dramatize the book as it is, then surely it is not necessary for the iconic opening to be kept at all costs...? The way Tosh has worked it so we still get the immortal words straght after the title credits is, IMO, an excellent compromise...
I like what you have suggested re: the burglar. And I would strongly argue for using Tosh's openng! If, as you have suggested, one shouldn't simply dramatize the book as it is, then surely it is not necessary for the iconic opening to be kept at all costs...? The way Tosh has worked it so we still get the immortal words straght after the title credits is, IMO, an excellent compromise...
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
Now that I've read all three openings, I can say that we've got some talented writers on this project. I can't wait to try a scene now, just to see if I can measure up.
I'll have to agree with Alatar on the opening, as in I think we can leave the scene with Gandalf and Thorin until later. That can be shown as a flashback, and we don't need to know how Gandalf got the job of finding a burgler just now. OTOH, I think we do need some connection between Gandalf and Bilbo right at the beginning. Gandalf didn't just choose any Hobbit who happened to be standing outside smoking his pipe on a beautiful morning; he picked one with the courage, sense, and fortitute to do what had to be done.
Also, there's the characterization quality of the dialogue to consider. I think our audience can tell a lot about the people speaking from the dialogue, and it helps set both character and mood quickly. Alatar made a good job of trimming off the excess, but I think he also cut into the meat of the opening scene when he shortened it and we're left wondering who Bilbo and Gandalf are and why we should care what they're about to do.
Elentári's edit keeps the snappy pace Alatar set for us, but puts in enough banter to round out our characters. Just my opinion, but there it is.
Tosh, would it be all right with you if I saved the opening you posted so it can be inserted later as a flashback scene? It's well written and I like your idea of how the Dwarves react to the prospect of having to steal back their treasure. The indignaiton Thorin shows tells me just how righteous he feels his claim is and that he's not accustomed to sneaking around for anything. I've been playing this scene in my head for a bit, but I'll step back and let you have at it as you've done so well.
I'll have to agree with Alatar on the opening, as in I think we can leave the scene with Gandalf and Thorin until later. That can be shown as a flashback, and we don't need to know how Gandalf got the job of finding a burgler just now. OTOH, I think we do need some connection between Gandalf and Bilbo right at the beginning. Gandalf didn't just choose any Hobbit who happened to be standing outside smoking his pipe on a beautiful morning; he picked one with the courage, sense, and fortitute to do what had to be done.
Also, there's the characterization quality of the dialogue to consider. I think our audience can tell a lot about the people speaking from the dialogue, and it helps set both character and mood quickly. Alatar made a good job of trimming off the excess, but I think he also cut into the meat of the opening scene when he shortened it and we're left wondering who Bilbo and Gandalf are and why we should care what they're about to do.
Elentári's edit keeps the snappy pace Alatar set for us, but puts in enough banter to round out our characters. Just my opinion, but there it is.
Tosh, would it be all right with you if I saved the opening you posted so it can be inserted later as a flashback scene? It's well written and I like your idea of how the Dwarves react to the prospect of having to steal back their treasure. The indignaiton Thorin shows tells me just how righteous he feels his claim is and that he's not accustomed to sneaking around for anything. I've been playing this scene in my head for a bit, but I'll step back and let you have at it as you've done so well.
Bite off more than you can chew. Then, chew it. Ask for seconds.
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ToshoftheWuffingas
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- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm