Thus this mini-series is concluded with the death of both Aredhel and Eöl, and Maeglin is looking forward to a new beginning...but of course there are portents of the darkness to come.
I tried to make the Ecthelion-Aredhel situation in the death scene as subtle as possible, and to making his reaction and subsequent confrontation with Eöl realistic. Credit must go to SF for providing the stage direction for the dungeon scene, and also for his handling of Eöl's execution.
I'm sorry if anyone finds the love story aspect of the screenplay unsettling. It is something I worked hard on to fit seamlessly and sensitively without affecting the canon storyline. As I tried to explain yesterday, it is simply as case of drama versus book, where we have a limited main cast of 5 key characters who are in all major scenes. Ecthelion's role, apart from being one of Aredhel's escort, has been mainly as the person for Turgon and the others to talk aloud to - in film you cannot simply hear a person's thoughts, or rely on a narrator to expound plot points as you can in a novel, it has to be carried entirely with dialogue and visuals! For the purposes of flm we felt Ecthelion's character needed his own personality and an emotional arc through the story. However, I have gone back over that throne room scene in the previous instalment, and toned it down a bit!
The History of the Silmarils - a serialization
Moving on from our slight detour to Gondolin, we now focus back onto Season 3 proper, and the ongoing history of the Silmarils…
We were keen to get our teeth into the Tale of Beren and Lúthien…it’s the story that is usually nominated at the most suited to dramatization – after all, it’s the most complete in terms of dialogue, has great dramatic potential with an impossible quest, etc. Whilst we had already introduced Lúthien early in Season 2, and featured her in passing also in the Doriath special, we felt we could not launch straight into the Quest for the Silmaril without having set up a certain amount of back story for Beren: of course, the giving of the Ring of Barahir could perhaps be covered in a flashback when Beren presents it to Finrod in Nargothrond, but we felt we definitely needed to show how Barahir’s people became outlaws, with Beren eventually the last survivor, to do the story justice.
At the end of Season 2 we had left events roughly around the start of the Siege of Angband. Now we proposed to jump 400 years to the Dagor Bragollach. Our biggest headache was how to open this season and bring the audience up to speed without resorting to standard recap devices such as my pet hate: “PREVIOUSLY, ON THE SILMARILLION…” or meaningless screen captions like as “Himlad…First Age: Year of the Sun 455,” - or even worse, doing a “Star Wars” and summarizing the past 400 years with scrolling text… [Of course, you would probably prefer one or other of those ideas, if you really hate our 4th Age storyline!]
Love them or loathe them, our Fourth Age characters simply allowed us to have some fun, and were a useful means of explaining to the audience parts of the story we were glossing over. Please skip those parts if you really can’t stomach it - most of the main sequences would work fine without it, and if anyone can suggest better ways to introduce and link sequences then by all means put them forward!
We could have simply have opened on the Long Peace, with a screen caption saying “Ard-Galen, 460 years after the death of Fëanor…” but we felt we had to explain the introductiion of the race of Men into the story, since events in the previous seasons had occurred before the Second-born children of Eru had awoken. We also felt it helpful to recap events for the audience in a different, and hopefully entertaining way: considering how CT’s maps were so invaluable to the reader in following the plot, and keeping track of who held which part of Beleriand, and remembering that Peter Jackson also used the map device in LotR on a couple of occasions, we decided to go one better! Some of you will know that sauronsfinger is a past master at building LotR dioramas and has, I believe, previously posted links to photos his work.
Thus it was his inspired suggestion to have a 3D landscaped map that Eldarion could have in his playroom which Aragorn and Eldarion could use to re-enact key moments of the BSF with their toy soldiers, whilst also cleverly dissolving into “live action” at strategic moments.
So, we thought, we would feature a summary of the Battle of Sudden Flame, culminating in the fall of the fortress on Tol Sirion, and showing Barahir’s rescue of Finrod from the fens of Serech. Should be able to do that in one episode, surely?
Hah! The summary of Dagor Bragollach was covered easily enough, but the Fall of Tol Sirion and its aftermath ended up taking on a life of its own, and by the time Beren actually left Dorthonion we had six episodes written!! Looking back, we probably could have given Sauron’s capture of Tol Sirion a much smaller treatment, but we had a certain namesake on our team who was gagging for some action à la Helm’s Deep, and he got to indulge his fantasies big time! ;-) Not only that, but Ethelwynn hit her stride with the outlaws of Dorthonion and provided some wonderful character development as their story grew in the telling…we also enjoyed the opportunity to slip in references for the fans, to help set up later events, should we get that far, such as Gelmir’s abduction during the Dagor Bragollach, even if we weren’t able to get as far as the Nirnaeth Arnoediad itself.
So, in this first instalment we get to see what Morgoth and his lieutenant have been up to during the Long Peace, courtesy of SF...
We were keen to get our teeth into the Tale of Beren and Lúthien…it’s the story that is usually nominated at the most suited to dramatization – after all, it’s the most complete in terms of dialogue, has great dramatic potential with an impossible quest, etc. Whilst we had already introduced Lúthien early in Season 2, and featured her in passing also in the Doriath special, we felt we could not launch straight into the Quest for the Silmaril without having set up a certain amount of back story for Beren: of course, the giving of the Ring of Barahir could perhaps be covered in a flashback when Beren presents it to Finrod in Nargothrond, but we felt we definitely needed to show how Barahir’s people became outlaws, with Beren eventually the last survivor, to do the story justice.
At the end of Season 2 we had left events roughly around the start of the Siege of Angband. Now we proposed to jump 400 years to the Dagor Bragollach. Our biggest headache was how to open this season and bring the audience up to speed without resorting to standard recap devices such as my pet hate: “PREVIOUSLY, ON THE SILMARILLION…” or meaningless screen captions like as “Himlad…First Age: Year of the Sun 455,” - or even worse, doing a “Star Wars” and summarizing the past 400 years with scrolling text… [Of course, you would probably prefer one or other of those ideas, if you really hate our 4th Age storyline!]
Love them or loathe them, our Fourth Age characters simply allowed us to have some fun, and were a useful means of explaining to the audience parts of the story we were glossing over. Please skip those parts if you really can’t stomach it - most of the main sequences would work fine without it, and if anyone can suggest better ways to introduce and link sequences then by all means put them forward!
We could have simply have opened on the Long Peace, with a screen caption saying “Ard-Galen, 460 years after the death of Fëanor…” but we felt we had to explain the introductiion of the race of Men into the story, since events in the previous seasons had occurred before the Second-born children of Eru had awoken. We also felt it helpful to recap events for the audience in a different, and hopefully entertaining way: considering how CT’s maps were so invaluable to the reader in following the plot, and keeping track of who held which part of Beleriand, and remembering that Peter Jackson also used the map device in LotR on a couple of occasions, we decided to go one better! Some of you will know that sauronsfinger is a past master at building LotR dioramas and has, I believe, previously posted links to photos his work.
Thus it was his inspired suggestion to have a 3D landscaped map that Eldarion could have in his playroom which Aragorn and Eldarion could use to re-enact key moments of the BSF with their toy soldiers, whilst also cleverly dissolving into “live action” at strategic moments.
So, we thought, we would feature a summary of the Battle of Sudden Flame, culminating in the fall of the fortress on Tol Sirion, and showing Barahir’s rescue of Finrod from the fens of Serech. Should be able to do that in one episode, surely?
Hah! The summary of Dagor Bragollach was covered easily enough, but the Fall of Tol Sirion and its aftermath ended up taking on a life of its own, and by the time Beren actually left Dorthonion we had six episodes written!! Looking back, we probably could have given Sauron’s capture of Tol Sirion a much smaller treatment, but we had a certain namesake on our team who was gagging for some action à la Helm’s Deep, and he got to indulge his fantasies big time! ;-) Not only that, but Ethelwynn hit her stride with the outlaws of Dorthonion and provided some wonderful character development as their story grew in the telling…we also enjoyed the opportunity to slip in references for the fans, to help set up later events, should we get that far, such as Gelmir’s abduction during the Dagor Bragollach, even if we weren’t able to get as far as the Nirnaeth Arnoediad itself.
So, in this first instalment we get to see what Morgoth and his lieutenant have been up to during the Long Peace, courtesy of SF...
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
In these next instalments, sauronsfinger continues with his epic visualization of Angband and the relationship between Morgoth and Sauron. He also gives us a great transformation moment when Sauron becomes a werewolf, in preparation for his attack on Tol Sirion...
Meanwhile, Ethelwynn rises to the challenge of showing us how the various encampments of the Noldor reacted to the rivers of fire flowing from Thangorodrim, and the launch of attacks which initiated the Dagor Bragollach. We also get to meet Orodreth for the first time: in our screenplay he is Angrod's son, and therefore much younger than in the published SIL version. This did cause us a few slight difficulties in later episodes, but I think we managed to smooth things out in the end.
Meanwhile, Ethelwynn rises to the challenge of showing us how the various encampments of the Noldor reacted to the rivers of fire flowing from Thangorodrim, and the launch of attacks which initiated the Dagor Bragollach. We also get to meet Orodreth for the first time: in our screenplay he is Angrod's son, and therefore much younger than in the published SIL version. This did cause us a few slight difficulties in later episodes, but I think we managed to smooth things out in the end.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
For the next episode of Season 3 we concentrated on the fall of Finrod’s fortress at Tol Sirion.
As I pointed out before, we had decided to honour JRRT’s later decision to make Orodreth Finrod’s nephew, rather than brother as he is in the published text. Consequently, Orodreth in our version is a generation younger, and moreover because we ended up having him born in M-e we found he would logically still be living with his parents in Dorthonion, not commanding his uncle’s island stronghold. But we did not want to deviate too much from canon so we came up with a way to have Orodreth and Finrod in the right places at the right time! Thus Finrod is in residence at Tol Sirion when we visit, having reached there on his way north to attempt to relieve his beleaguered cousins in Hithlum. He has sent a preliminary force further north to try and breakthrough to Fingolfin, and whilst he is waiting on the success of that force, his nephew and sister-in-law arrive at the fortress, having fled from an overrun Dorthonion with the news of his brothers’ deaths.
Ethelwynn deftly handled the opening, setting the scene for us, and then SF and I worked on the Tol Sirion scenes together for the most part.
As to the attack itself, not much is said other than it was subject to an onslaught of the supernatural of some kind, and basically the elves were driven out by fear and the sorcery of Sauron. We strongly felt that the Elves should not be portrayed as cowards so we would have Sauron instigate a full military attack as well as his fear-mongering sorcery as a preliminary shake-up of the garrison.
SF originally came up with three scenarios for the supernatural attacks on the fortress, and in each of them Elves were killed. It dawned on me a year later, that this didn’t work, because if Sauron had the power to attack and destroy the garrison from without, then he could have taken the fortress easily without a full military attack. So – confession time – I changed the dining hall scenario so that no one was actually killed, and it was just sorcery to frighten and demoralize the Elves, and I cut out the third altogether. The first attack, involving three guards on the battlements I left exactly as written, since the idea of them killing each other in the fear and confusion of their senses I thought still worked very well.
So, SF, if you are still finding time to read this: my apologies…even though I cut it here, the original is still on file, and will always bring back fond memories!
As I pointed out before, we had decided to honour JRRT’s later decision to make Orodreth Finrod’s nephew, rather than brother as he is in the published text. Consequently, Orodreth in our version is a generation younger, and moreover because we ended up having him born in M-e we found he would logically still be living with his parents in Dorthonion, not commanding his uncle’s island stronghold. But we did not want to deviate too much from canon so we came up with a way to have Orodreth and Finrod in the right places at the right time! Thus Finrod is in residence at Tol Sirion when we visit, having reached there on his way north to attempt to relieve his beleaguered cousins in Hithlum. He has sent a preliminary force further north to try and breakthrough to Fingolfin, and whilst he is waiting on the success of that force, his nephew and sister-in-law arrive at the fortress, having fled from an overrun Dorthonion with the news of his brothers’ deaths.
Ethelwynn deftly handled the opening, setting the scene for us, and then SF and I worked on the Tol Sirion scenes together for the most part.
As to the attack itself, not much is said other than it was subject to an onslaught of the supernatural of some kind, and basically the elves were driven out by fear and the sorcery of Sauron. We strongly felt that the Elves should not be portrayed as cowards so we would have Sauron instigate a full military attack as well as his fear-mongering sorcery as a preliminary shake-up of the garrison.
SF originally came up with three scenarios for the supernatural attacks on the fortress, and in each of them Elves were killed. It dawned on me a year later, that this didn’t work, because if Sauron had the power to attack and destroy the garrison from without, then he could have taken the fortress easily without a full military attack. So – confession time – I changed the dining hall scenario so that no one was actually killed, and it was just sorcery to frighten and demoralize the Elves, and I cut out the third altogether. The first attack, involving three guards on the battlements I left exactly as written, since the idea of them killing each other in the fear and confusion of their senses I thought still worked very well.
So, SF, if you are still finding time to read this: my apologies…even though I cut it here, the original is still on file, and will always bring back fond memories!
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
This instalment kicks off with our first look at Barahir and his followers: Ethelwynn took the reins for this storyline, and did a marvellous job over the season bringing all the characters to life, giving us a real feel for their individual traits and setting up Beren for future episodes.
SF and I worked together on the Tol Sirion assault, and it ended up being a real test of friendship by the end!! He has a wonderfully vivid imagination and a penchant for the spectacular when it comes to visualizing a story for film, which was sometimes at odds with what I felt was in keeping with canon, or simple logical sense! For me, everything has to be believable, first and foremost, and to make sense with what has gone before. But we made it through just about intact and with a compromise version that worked for both of us.
During the writing of the assault SF decided he wanted to create some new “monsters” for Middle-earth to supplement Sauron’s werewolves and the usual assortment of orcs. After tossing various suggestions back and forth, I mentioned the wendigo. SF was instantly reminded of a Berni Wrightson painting he owns, featuring just such a yeti and our “ice demon” was born. I was tasked with giving it a suitably M-e sounding name, so they were christened the “Helcaraukar.” Similarly, our reptilian gargoyles in the next instalment were slightly inspired by Baum’s flying monkeys, and we simply named them the “Ulundar” the Quenyan for “deformed and hideous creatures.”
Regarding the “reinforcements” which Finrod had sent out, and which met such an unfortunate end: canon has Finrod hastening from the south, ostensibly to aid his brothers in Dorthonion. For our purposes he has got as far as Tol Sirion. Logically the reinforcements he sends from there would be to Dorthonion…but when I revisited this screenplay it seems for some reason we had written them as being sent to Maedhros.
Now, I can only assume that in light of our revised storyline which has the refugees from Dorthonion fleeing to Tol Sirion, it meant that any reinforcements sent to Dorthonion would have been seen by the refugees, so their massacre by Sauron would not work as the surprise we wanted. It just seemed strange to me that instead we would have Finrod sending aid to the Feanorians - rather than his uncle Fingolfin’s fortress, even! But I have attempted to rewrite it so that the force was sent to Dorthonion...
Ethelwynn, and indeed anyone else, I would value your thoughts on this...
SF and I worked together on the Tol Sirion assault, and it ended up being a real test of friendship by the end!! He has a wonderfully vivid imagination and a penchant for the spectacular when it comes to visualizing a story for film, which was sometimes at odds with what I felt was in keeping with canon, or simple logical sense! For me, everything has to be believable, first and foremost, and to make sense with what has gone before. But we made it through just about intact and with a compromise version that worked for both of us.
During the writing of the assault SF decided he wanted to create some new “monsters” for Middle-earth to supplement Sauron’s werewolves and the usual assortment of orcs. After tossing various suggestions back and forth, I mentioned the wendigo. SF was instantly reminded of a Berni Wrightson painting he owns, featuring just such a yeti and our “ice demon” was born. I was tasked with giving it a suitably M-e sounding name, so they were christened the “Helcaraukar.” Similarly, our reptilian gargoyles in the next instalment were slightly inspired by Baum’s flying monkeys, and we simply named them the “Ulundar” the Quenyan for “deformed and hideous creatures.”
Regarding the “reinforcements” which Finrod had sent out, and which met such an unfortunate end: canon has Finrod hastening from the south, ostensibly to aid his brothers in Dorthonion. For our purposes he has got as far as Tol Sirion. Logically the reinforcements he sends from there would be to Dorthonion…but when I revisited this screenplay it seems for some reason we had written them as being sent to Maedhros.
Now, I can only assume that in light of our revised storyline which has the refugees from Dorthonion fleeing to Tol Sirion, it meant that any reinforcements sent to Dorthonion would have been seen by the refugees, so their massacre by Sauron would not work as the surprise we wanted. It just seemed strange to me that instead we would have Finrod sending aid to the Feanorians - rather than his uncle Fingolfin’s fortress, even! But I have attempted to rewrite it so that the force was sent to Dorthonion...
Ethelwynn, and indeed anyone else, I would value your thoughts on this...
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
This final instalment of the episode sees the climax of the battle for Tol Sirion, with Orodreth showing his mettle, and Finrod prepared to sacrifice himself to give his friends a chance to escape. Edrahil is also clearly established as Finrod's right-hand man and second in command ...
SF suggested that Finrod should have a showdown with an important “baddie” as part of the climax, but it couldn’t be Sauron because that would pre-empt later events in Beren’s Quest, so that left the option of Draugluin, as the only other identified canon character. We also thought that success over a werewolf here might be a neat fore-shadowing of Finrod’s later, fatal meeting with another of Sauron’s werewolves. My input, apart from a couple of vignettes including the stable, and Poldon's death, is mainly the arrival of the vampire bats at the end to introduce Thuringwëthil and set up her important role in future proceedings.
I have to admit that it was this fight sequence that caused our screenwriting partnership the most grief! I was always happy to give SF free rein with the action sequences, because that is what he does best, and no way can I write “fighting stuff. ” Thus, the Finrod-Draugluin fight was building up to be the biggest set-piece fight sequence in Hollywood history…I believe SF wanted something based on the long, slow face-off in The Quiet Man, if my memory serves me correctly. In the end it just wasn’t working on many levels, which caused major angst between us! However, we managed to pick through the pieces and come up with something simpler, and hopefully physically believable, (remembering that Tolkien's werewolves are wolves, and not upright bi-peds) and still remaining loosely within canon.
SF suggested that Finrod should have a showdown with an important “baddie” as part of the climax, but it couldn’t be Sauron because that would pre-empt later events in Beren’s Quest, so that left the option of Draugluin, as the only other identified canon character. We also thought that success over a werewolf here might be a neat fore-shadowing of Finrod’s later, fatal meeting with another of Sauron’s werewolves. My input, apart from a couple of vignettes including the stable, and Poldon's death, is mainly the arrival of the vampire bats at the end to introduce Thuringwëthil and set up her important role in future proceedings.
I have to admit that it was this fight sequence that caused our screenwriting partnership the most grief! I was always happy to give SF free rein with the action sequences, because that is what he does best, and no way can I write “fighting stuff. ” Thus, the Finrod-Draugluin fight was building up to be the biggest set-piece fight sequence in Hollywood history…I believe SF wanted something based on the long, slow face-off in The Quiet Man, if my memory serves me correctly. In the end it just wasn’t working on many levels, which caused major angst between us! However, we managed to pick through the pieces and come up with something simpler, and hopefully physically believable, (remembering that Tolkien's werewolves are wolves, and not upright bi-peds) and still remaining loosely within canon.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
-
Voronwë the Faithful
- At the intersection of here and now
- Posts: 46175
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
- Contact:
We are sticking to Tolkien where he gives us the material to work with! The problem with the SIL is the gaps in the narrative, Voronwë...in a film they need to be filled, either with screen caps or a narrator, for example, unless you create your own scenes.
This is, of course, the main reason why the Silmarillion IS almost certainly unfilmable.
In hindsight I agree that the loss of Tol Sirion is probably best not shown on screen...we could have pitched straight in at the Fens of Serech, I suppose, but would have had to give some flashback explanation as to how/why Finrod & his band were there.
I guess it is always difficult to judge how much needs to be explained to the audience...
This is, of course, the main reason why the Silmarillion IS almost certainly unfilmable.
In hindsight I agree that the loss of Tol Sirion is probably best not shown on screen...we could have pitched straight in at the Fens of Serech, I suppose, but would have had to give some flashback explanation as to how/why Finrod & his band were there.
I guess it is always difficult to judge how much needs to be explained to the audience...
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
I just wanted to add, in case it wasn't clear in my earliest posts, that our screenplay is an attempt to create a film adaptation of parts of The Silmarillion in the same style as Jackson's LotR...
Whilst we would all love to have a "purist" film version I think we can all agree that such a film would end up being an arthouse project, maybe not all that watchable, and certainly not the sort of film that would attract the mainstream audience. Our idea is to try to engage an audience who has never read the book and just wants to be entertained.
However, where in Jackson's case the needs of a feature film superceded a slavish adherence to the source material, we have done our utmost to follow canon scenes where they exist. And where Tolkien gives enough detailed direction to write an imagined scene we have attempted to do so in a sympathetic manner.
Only very occasionally have we taken dramatic licence, such as with the Tol Sirion episode, and of course, the 4th Age framing storyline, and these could easily be omitted in favour of a more purist vision.
One last detail I should perhaps comment on, and that is the language issue. I personally have endeavoured to write the scenes I tackled in a more formal, archaic style, comparable with that employed by JRRT. Fortunately that worked well as I tended naturally to identify with the Valar and the "High Elves" in my choice of scenes to take on.
Other writers in our team have chosen a more modern, relaxed style. I know some will find this somewhat jarring, and I sympathise. But I have come to realize that a whole film of dialogue spoken "as it is in the book" would be far too heavy going to the average audience today. As has been acknowledged before, the Elves of the SIL are a different kettle of fish to those full of melancholy in LotR, and indeed as portrayed in Jackson's trilogy. In the earlier seasons also, we had no race of Men to contrast with the Elves, either. Therefore, the Feanorians, in particular, took on the role of the "everyman" and their speech, and repartee, was written accordingly. But it is obviously a question of taste, and this screenplay should be seen perhaps simply as a framework of ideas which could be adapted and revised accordingly.
As far as I am concerned, nothing is written in stone, and if anyone wants to suggest detailed improvements for a particular scene, then I'm happy to listen. that is after all, the point of me posting our work here. It's not a fait accompli!
Whilst we would all love to have a "purist" film version I think we can all agree that such a film would end up being an arthouse project, maybe not all that watchable, and certainly not the sort of film that would attract the mainstream audience. Our idea is to try to engage an audience who has never read the book and just wants to be entertained.
However, where in Jackson's case the needs of a feature film superceded a slavish adherence to the source material, we have done our utmost to follow canon scenes where they exist. And where Tolkien gives enough detailed direction to write an imagined scene we have attempted to do so in a sympathetic manner.
Only very occasionally have we taken dramatic licence, such as with the Tol Sirion episode, and of course, the 4th Age framing storyline, and these could easily be omitted in favour of a more purist vision.
One last detail I should perhaps comment on, and that is the language issue. I personally have endeavoured to write the scenes I tackled in a more formal, archaic style, comparable with that employed by JRRT. Fortunately that worked well as I tended naturally to identify with the Valar and the "High Elves" in my choice of scenes to take on.
Other writers in our team have chosen a more modern, relaxed style. I know some will find this somewhat jarring, and I sympathise. But I have come to realize that a whole film of dialogue spoken "as it is in the book" would be far too heavy going to the average audience today. As has been acknowledged before, the Elves of the SIL are a different kettle of fish to those full of melancholy in LotR, and indeed as portrayed in Jackson's trilogy. In the earlier seasons also, we had no race of Men to contrast with the Elves, either. Therefore, the Feanorians, in particular, took on the role of the "everyman" and their speech, and repartee, was written accordingly. But it is obviously a question of taste, and this screenplay should be seen perhaps simply as a framework of ideas which could be adapted and revised accordingly.
As far as I am concerned, nothing is written in stone, and if anyone wants to suggest detailed improvements for a particular scene, then I'm happy to listen. that is after all, the point of me posting our work here. It's not a fait accompli!
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
-
Voronwë the Faithful
- At the intersection of here and now
- Posts: 46175
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
- Contact:
I understand. And most of what you have done I like a lot. But things that I like aren't really conducive to comment beyond "I like that". It is only the things that I find don't work that there is any substantive comment to be made. But maybe I should refrain from doing so, particularly since virtually all of the stuff that I haven't liked is stuff that you have identified as someone else's work, as I've mentioned before.
I ran into the same problem, by the way, with my book, in that most of what Christopher Tolkien did in editing the published Silmarillion I like, but it wouldn't make a very interesting book to have me repeat over and over "I like this" and "I like that". So the resulting impression that some people have gotten is that I am more critical of Christopher's work than I really am.
I ran into the same problem, by the way, with my book, in that most of what Christopher Tolkien did in editing the published Silmarillion I like, but it wouldn't make a very interesting book to have me repeat over and over "I like this" and "I like that". So the resulting impression that some people have gotten is that I am more critical of Christopher's work than I really am.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
That's fine, and I appreciate that, Voronwë. And where you find parts you don't like, it would be useful to have a little more detail if there is anything in particular that might be put right!
I'm sorry my comments are necessarily directed at you as the only person willing to offer opinion so far - I do appreciate your time and effort, and just wish there were others able to participate as well.
I'm sorry my comments are necessarily directed at you as the only person willing to offer opinion so far - I do appreciate your time and effort, and just wish there were others able to participate as well.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
That would be great Al! I know I do use a lot of stage directions for the dialogue because I want readers to hear in their heads how I think the words should be "performed" - it's a script, after all, so it should read as though you can see the scenes acted out in your head, rather than as a novel! Obviously in a real script there wouldn't be so much description of the sets, etc, but again it wouldn't make for very interesting reading like that so we wanted to show the reader what the camera would be seeing...Anyway, on with the story: This next episode, set in the aftermath of the loss of Finrod’s fortress, saw us needing to get Finrod north to the Fens of Serech in order for Barahir to rescue him. We realized, several episodes down the line, that we had written ourselves into a tight spot at this point for two reasons. Firstly, why should Finrod go north if he already knew Dorthonion was lost, and secondly, because we had written (our younger) Orodreth into position at Tol Sirion, in keeping with canon, we needed to lose him before they got very far, in order for him to be rescued by Celegorm and Curufin as Tolkien originally envisaged in earlier versions. So we had to go back and re-write certain scenes and try to ensure the sequence of events made sense in terms of the geography of M-e and believability.
The way we “fudged” the first issue was to have the escape route open out to the north of Tol Sirion, so that it was impossible for the escapees to double back past the fortress and take the shortest route back to Nargothrond. Then, in attempting to make for Fingolfin’s stronghold by travelling on the western back towards Fens, the band was attacked by orcs, and escaped by jumping into the fast flowing Sirion. Orodreth is swept away down river, (to be pulled out evetually by C&C just north of Doriath) and Finrod makes the decision to cross the Fens and try to double back through Dorthonion and the pass of Anach to Nargothrond.
We also realized it was about time we saw a bit more of Lúthien, and established the lie of the land in Doriath...
This first instalment features scenes from Ethelwynn, and myself – but I’ll leave you to guess which are which...
Oh, and here are some more pics:
Barahir and his outlaws:
[Yes, they are mostly actors playing Faramir's Ithilien Rangers but it was very hard to find 12 M-e looking rangers!
]Finrod's Elves from Tol Sirion and the beginnings of the Union of Maedhros:
Last edited by Elentári on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
This 4th episode opens with the famous oath-swearing between Barahir and Finrod, and we also see Barahir making the decision for his warriors to fight on as outlaws, and entrusting his womenfolk and children to the leadership of his wife, Emeldir. Ethwelwynn takes the credit for the touching scene between husband and wife. I hope she won't mind me saying that she found empathy with the strong female characters in these stories, particularly Nerdanel and Emeldir, and later her own created characters. Ethelwynn's military knowledge and experience from her SCA activities were invaluable to us during this screenplay.
The point at which this instalment ends is not a natural break...it should be read flowing straight on into the next instalment which I shall put up later. I simply cut it here to keep the post size down for easier reading.
The point at which this instalment ends is not a natural break...it should be read flowing straight on into the next instalment which I shall put up later. I simply cut it here to keep the post size down for easier reading.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
Okay…I make no excuses for this next scene! It is pure self-indulgence for the most part, whilst also serving the function of imparting important background info to the audience and at the same time providing a way of including a particular scene later on in this episode which we had thought might have to be cut.
The premise for the 4th Age scene here is based on the idea that after Celeborn sailed to the Undying Lands (as we portrayed in Season 2 #5/6) his grandsons packed up his belonging that he had wished to send to Arwen and Aragorn, since they were now responsible for the future guardianship of the knowledge and history of the Eldar in M-e – hence the “Room of Antiquities” in Minas Tirith that we introduced right at the beginning of Season 1. Here, Arwen is heavily into her third pregnancy, and has the “nesting” impulse, so the family are helping her to unpack the trunks and boxes sent from Rivendell. It was SF’s suggestion that we used Aragorn and Arwen to explain to Eldarion about the history of his father’s ring, and for them to be the ideal characters to express the implications and significance of union between Man and Elf, in preparation for Beren & Lúthien's story.
I should explain that at this point we were pretty much ready to launch into the story of Gorlim’s betrayal etc, and I thought that we had passed the point where we could have featured Fingolfin’s epic challenge to Morgoth in its correct chronological position. However, I knew that sauronsfinger had been looking forward to taking on that particular scene, and after all, it is one of the key moments in the whole book!
Writing this scene was one of the most enjoyable I have undertaken… the characters are so much fun to write for and the ideas just flowed incredibly easily. So easily, in fact, that I found myself suddenly inspired with a way to work in the Fingolfin/Morgoth fight after all. Since Tolkien never disclosed the ultimate fate of Fingolfin’s sword after the Lord of the Eagles removed his body to the Echoriath, who is to say what happened to it? Whether taken by Morgoth's minions or not, it would have been lost under the waves when Beleriand was submerged at the end of the First Age, unless Thorondor carried it away with the body and it passed to Turgon in Gondolin.
If it was the later, (assuming that Turgon kept it and did not give it to Fingon or bury it with his father) from there it could have been rescued from the Fall by Idril to be passed on to Gil-galad at the Mouths of the Sirion. Since Gil-galad was known for his preferred use of his spear Aeglos, that might explain why Ringlo was not used openly. On his death at Dagorlad, ownership would logically have passed to his herald, Elrond, who never made the claim on the High Kingship (he was descended through the female line.) So it would most likely have been at Rivendell as part of Elrond’s effects.
But one could use a further stretch of the imagination to explain it being in Celeborn’s possessions: Since both Elrond and Galadriel were the last of the House of Finwë in M-e…I rather like the idea that Elrond could have willingly proffered the sword to Celeborn, in return for the hand of his daughter!
The premise for the 4th Age scene here is based on the idea that after Celeborn sailed to the Undying Lands (as we portrayed in Season 2 #5/6) his grandsons packed up his belonging that he had wished to send to Arwen and Aragorn, since they were now responsible for the future guardianship of the knowledge and history of the Eldar in M-e – hence the “Room of Antiquities” in Minas Tirith that we introduced right at the beginning of Season 1. Here, Arwen is heavily into her third pregnancy, and has the “nesting” impulse, so the family are helping her to unpack the trunks and boxes sent from Rivendell. It was SF’s suggestion that we used Aragorn and Arwen to explain to Eldarion about the history of his father’s ring, and for them to be the ideal characters to express the implications and significance of union between Man and Elf, in preparation for Beren & Lúthien's story.
I should explain that at this point we were pretty much ready to launch into the story of Gorlim’s betrayal etc, and I thought that we had passed the point where we could have featured Fingolfin’s epic challenge to Morgoth in its correct chronological position. However, I knew that sauronsfinger had been looking forward to taking on that particular scene, and after all, it is one of the key moments in the whole book!
Writing this scene was one of the most enjoyable I have undertaken… the characters are so much fun to write for and the ideas just flowed incredibly easily. So easily, in fact, that I found myself suddenly inspired with a way to work in the Fingolfin/Morgoth fight after all. Since Tolkien never disclosed the ultimate fate of Fingolfin’s sword after the Lord of the Eagles removed his body to the Echoriath, who is to say what happened to it? Whether taken by Morgoth's minions or not, it would have been lost under the waves when Beleriand was submerged at the end of the First Age, unless Thorondor carried it away with the body and it passed to Turgon in Gondolin.
If it was the later, (assuming that Turgon kept it and did not give it to Fingon or bury it with his father) from there it could have been rescued from the Fall by Idril to be passed on to Gil-galad at the Mouths of the Sirion. Since Gil-galad was known for his preferred use of his spear Aeglos, that might explain why Ringlo was not used openly. On his death at Dagorlad, ownership would logically have passed to his herald, Elrond, who never made the claim on the High Kingship (he was descended through the female line.) So it would most likely have been at Rivendell as part of Elrond’s effects.
But one could use a further stretch of the imagination to explain it being in Celeborn’s possessions: Since both Elrond and Galadriel were the last of the House of Finwë in M-e…I rather like the idea that Elrond could have willingly proffered the sword to Celeborn, in return for the hand of his daughter!
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
-
Voronwë the Faithful
- At the intersection of here and now
- Posts: 46175
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
- Contact:
Sorry??? 
I said it was his concept, but that I wrote it! I declined to apologize for some of the self-indulgence...
[- I meant to add that I just couldn't help picturing Eldarion as a typical inquisitive child who might ask awkward questions, and having that mercurial mentality where they change their train of thought from one instant to the next, especially when they have got bored with the current topic, or don't understand the conversation!]
And why would you be disappointed?
I said it was his concept, but that I wrote it! I declined to apologize for some of the self-indulgence... [- I meant to add that I just couldn't help picturing Eldarion as a typical inquisitive child who might ask awkward questions, and having that mercurial mentality where they change their train of thought from one instant to the next, especially when they have got bored with the current topic, or don't understand the conversation!]
And why would you be disappointed?
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
This latest instalment is simply a couple of scenes from Ethelwynn to tie up some loose ends and/or get certain characters to the right places to be revisited later. The observant among you will remember that Giemma was the young elfling from Season 1 who had got separated from her parents when Fëanor ordered the ships to be burnt at Losgar. It was Ethelwynn's clever idea to weave her back into the story, now fully grown, to capture Curufin's attention...
The final instalment of this episode will be SF's dramatization of the Fingolfin-Morgoth showdown...
The final instalment of this episode will be SF's dramatization of the Fingolfin-Morgoth showdown...
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
With the remaining episodes in Season 3 we settled down to tell the story of Gorlim’s betrayal, ultimately aiming to get to the stage where Beren is surviving alone and about to reach Doriath. We developed a mini 4th Age storyline to bookend the two episodes.
At this point I think most of the team had assumed we would concentrate entirely on the Quest for the Silmaril, presenting the storyline in a linear fashion…however one member had a different idea! Ethelwynn was reluctant to drop the Feanorian brothers from our screenplay altogether, and wished to keep going with coverage of activities during this time. So she took on her own pet project, so to speak, of dramatizing the beginnings of the Union of Maedhros. We get to meet Bór and his family, for example. She also developed a storyline for her own original characters, around the idea of refugee Elves that had escaped from Angband. I will not say anymore, as I hope that Ethelwynn herself will offer some commentary here if she so desires..
Whilst I have my own reservations about non-canon characters and whether the ongoing Feanorian storyline detracts from the main story we were trying to tell, one benefit we found from weaving the Himring storyline in was that, by the end of Season 4, and the culmination of Beren’s Quest, we had in fact been able to give a much wider picture of what was happening in M-e during that time, with the various different threads being drawn together as we march inexorably on towards the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.
At this point I think most of the team had assumed we would concentrate entirely on the Quest for the Silmaril, presenting the storyline in a linear fashion…however one member had a different idea! Ethelwynn was reluctant to drop the Feanorian brothers from our screenplay altogether, and wished to keep going with coverage of activities during this time. So she took on her own pet project, so to speak, of dramatizing the beginnings of the Union of Maedhros. We get to meet Bór and his family, for example. She also developed a storyline for her own original characters, around the idea of refugee Elves that had escaped from Angband. I will not say anymore, as I hope that Ethelwynn herself will offer some commentary here if she so desires..
Whilst I have my own reservations about non-canon characters and whether the ongoing Feanorian storyline detracts from the main story we were trying to tell, one benefit we found from weaving the Himring storyline in was that, by the end of Season 4, and the culmination of Beren’s Quest, we had in fact been able to give a much wider picture of what was happening in M-e during that time, with the various different threads being drawn together as we march inexorably on towards the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
Elen and SF put up with me very charitably during this part of the story. The fact is that the Union story line is mostly out of my own head, although strongly based on what Tolkien wrote. I seem mentally unable to let go of established characters once they are introduced, and if I don't know what they have been doing while major action is going on I drive myself crazy.
Ditto the idea of characters that emerge fully formed and with apparent long-standing relationships to main characters but with no known back story. If we were going to focus on Bor and his sons later, as we would have to, I had to bring them in and give them time for the audience to buy into them. That way their deaths would carry emotion rather than being just collateral damage.
Probably the most fully created characters in the next few episodes are what I called the "Rough Elves". These came from the idea in the SIL that some Elves escaped from (or were released from) Morgoth's dungeons and were not accepted back into their home communities. Figuring they had to live somehow, and that probably they would band together if they could, I decided to introduce some to Maedhros' life for several reasons. First, Morgoth would be searching for Barahir in the area near Himring and need some reason to keep looking there. Second, Maedhros' experience would make him more likely to accept the refugees than other lords might be. Third, watching Maedhros interact with Bor regarding the increased attention of the Bad Guys looking for Barahir and the evidence of the newcomers gave a good basis for the mutual respect and loyalty they would later share.
There's my original ideas. Can't wait to see what everyone thinks.
Ditto the idea of characters that emerge fully formed and with apparent long-standing relationships to main characters but with no known back story. If we were going to focus on Bor and his sons later, as we would have to, I had to bring them in and give them time for the audience to buy into them. That way their deaths would carry emotion rather than being just collateral damage.
Probably the most fully created characters in the next few episodes are what I called the "Rough Elves". These came from the idea in the SIL that some Elves escaped from (or were released from) Morgoth's dungeons and were not accepted back into their home communities. Figuring they had to live somehow, and that probably they would band together if they could, I decided to introduce some to Maedhros' life for several reasons. First, Morgoth would be searching for Barahir in the area near Himring and need some reason to keep looking there. Second, Maedhros' experience would make him more likely to accept the refugees than other lords might be. Third, watching Maedhros interact with Bor regarding the increased attention of the Bad Guys looking for Barahir and the evidence of the newcomers gave a good basis for the mutual respect and loyalty they would later share.
There's my original ideas. Can't wait to see what everyone thinks.
Bite off more than you can chew. Then, chew it. Ask for seconds.