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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:54 pm 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
the site isn't going to go away, just my role


As Jackson Browne said in the late-70's when Springsteen was headlining with him and someone told him 'they're not booing you, they're yelling Brooooce'...

"What's the difference?" ;)


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:29 pm 
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That's very kind, but the The Hall of Fire is much more than me.

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:49 am 
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#40 Varda Elbereth, Lady of the Stars (f) – valier queen
[TG:39,EoA:10,Wik:10,RF:36,JT:39,DD:19,MD:8,DK:7,JR:1,JG:3,Let:2,LR/SL/CH:26,HM/UT:164=364pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Varda
She drops a bit from the last run-through of this list, because well, Tolkien Gateway awards her no more points than Tyler. But she is still the highest ranking Vala outside of he who possibly ultimately became evil incarnate because of her rejections of him. You don’t suppose, had Varda been a bit shallower and less discerning, Arda would have been a world of bliss from the beginning. There wouldn’t be much stories to tell, however! (As it is, from Manwë's standpoint, she’s definitely the Lady…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR4if4ble1A

#39 Éowyn, White Lady of Rohan and the Lady of Ithilien (f) – rohirrim lady
[TG:76,EoA15,Wik:35,RF:21,JT:25,MD:83,DD:39,JR:1,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:11,UT/HM:32,HoF+:30=369pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Éowyn
I’m glad she chimes in as the top person of Rohan, her brother just on the other side of the top-40. She’s also the highest-ranking person to have no hint of extraneous life: all dúnedain and númenoreans of course have extended lifespans; Húrin & Túrin early in the cosmology are painted as immortals of the sky, like Eärendil; and Tuor is hinted at being accepted as an Elf, in the end. Then there’s Éowyn, who gets 30pts, not from votes on the initial thread of ‘important’ characters that inspired this list, but on the several favourite-character lists that I included way back (making her the 8th favourite, in fact). Well-earned and deserved I say. (Her song, while conceived to be derogatory, I think appropriately encapsulates her love-life…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqMl5CRoFdk

#38 Eru Ilúvatar, the One – god all-father
[TG:52,EoA:7,Wik:20,RF:19,JT:4,MD:61,DK:6,JR:2,JG:2,LR/SL/CH:29,UT/HM:153,HoF+:20=375pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Il%C3%BAvatar
God being at #38 proves this is not the list of the most important entities of the Legendarium. He plays a significant role, but lacks of course in stage presence! Where he would be #1 on such another list, and is called The One, and ‘One’ is a song by both U2 and Metallica (different songs) that usually rank high, and I considered them both for the longest time; there was only ONE choice for the #38 classic rock song of all time, and that comes from the quiet Beatle…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kNGnIKUdMI

#37 Elendil the Tall, High King of Arnor & Gondor – arnorian dúnadan king
[TG:56,EoA:5,Wik:18,RF:28,JT:39,MD:4,DD:32,DK:1,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:38,UT/HM:94,HoF+:60=376pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Elendil
Who surpasses God in the Legendarium? Well, 37 characters apparently, that the Story could not have been told without! Elendil’s father was back around #120; his son is still to come; as is a distant descendant. (When the Island sinks, we’ve got somewhere to go…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL3nFxSoApE

#36 Melian the Maia, Queen of Doriath and mother of Lúthien (f) – maia queen
[TG:41,EoA:24,Wik:18,RF:26,JT:23,MD:49,DD:33,DK:7,JR:6,JG:1,LR/SL/CoH:13,UT/HM:137=378pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Melian
I can only assume, as a mother, that you would want a daughter to be all she could be, and more than you. Consider that fulfilled. But Melian was much more important to the Story than just that. She was a Maia who entered Middle-earth, waylaid and married one of the 3 Elf ambassadors on his way to Valinor, was a Queen and Protector of Doriath until it fell, advising against the Silmaril-seduced leanings of her husband and King, ultimately witnessing a dwarf-lord parade into her chamber bearing his decapitated head, and finally escaping Middle-earth in heartache as her daughter and son-in-law were dealing with life, death, immortality, a Silmaril, and the Fate of the World!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dhq7eWpjn8

#35 Gil-galad, 2nd High King of the Elves of Middle-earth – noldo king
[TG:88,EoA:16,Wik:29,RF:26,JT:76,MD:1,DD:26,DK:5,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:20,UT/HM:86,HoF+:20=394pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gil-Galad
His lineage, and the controversies, probably boost his standing, rather than detract from it. He did however become High King of the Elves in Middle-earth after Thingol for an Age (parts of 3), however you want to do the math; was an original Ring-bearer, possibly a holder of 2 of the 3 for a time; fought Sauron in combat, perishing; and even made it into Jackson’s movies! Not a bad résumé. (For almost all of his life, his homes have been, well you know the geography…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHEOMTlOaFE

#34 Glaurung the Golden, Father of Dragons and the Great Worm of Morgoth – fire-drake
[TG:107,EoA:14,Wik:15,RF:32,JT:38,MD:4,DD:32,DK:2,JR:4,JG:1,LR/SL/CH:13,UT/HM:129,HoF+:4=395pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Glaurung
Yes, right here at #34! If he can’t be any higher, he certainly shouldn’t be any lower. (Speaking to any member of the family of Húrin…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeXqtzusIU0

#33 Fingolfin, 2nd son of Finwë and 4th King of the Noldor – noldo king
[TG:61:,EoA:14,Wik:16,RF:30,JT:94,MD:2,DD:35,DK:7,JR:5,LR/SL/CH:10,UT/HM:90;HoF+:35=399pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Fingolfin
His 35pts from the favourite-character lists I used way back rank him 6th place on that account. He isn’t ignored either by all resources, including Rateliff, Kane, Day, Drout, Foster, and especially Tyler, who gives him the most points (3pgs in my copy), the first sentences of each paragraph reading thusly: “Fingolfin was accounted by the Noldor the bravest of the three sons of Finwë… The long story of the deeds of the Elves’ first High King in Exile is stirring, yet ultimately tragic and wasteful… Fingolfin was proclaimed High King of the Noldor in the first Year of the Sun…Fingolfin and his people now occupied Hithlum and Mithrim as their realm… Alone of the High-elven kings of old, Finwë wedded twice…”. And the concluding sentence: “And in the deeds which followed [Finwë’s] murder (for such it was) Finwë’s house was laid low, and two of his three sons were slain, even as he had been, and by the same foe, and for the same cause – the Silmarils”. (An exception to a top-100 ranking, I couldn’t resist this band having not appeared yet, though it being at the risk of editing-out by some parties ;) ...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJRkdYreV1w

#32 Thorin II Oakenshield, King of Durin’s Folk and King Under The Mountain – dwarf king
[TG:146,EoA:10,Wik:21,RF:16,JT:44,MD:50,DD:29,JR:35,HC:1,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:5,UT/HM:20,HoF+:23=401pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Thorin
He’s the first character to accumulate 400pts here, almost averaging 10pts per resource I used. Well, one dwarf remains, so no surprise who it will be…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8RYJh6d0l0

#31 Círdan the Shipwright, Lord of the Falathrim – sinda lord/mariner
[TG:147,EoA:15,Wik:68,RF:24,JT:54,MD:1,DD:29,DK:2,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:15,UT/HM:42,HoF+:3=401pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Círdan
Most of what I said of Gil-galad almost applies to this legend. (But a better, and more appropriate song than Gil-galad’s, I’ve had pegged for this Lord waiting by the Sea for 3, 4, 5(?) Ages…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btLuzjHbCUU


glossary:

*=as in CT's indexing in UT (ie. characters not appearing in Hobbit/LotR/AdvTB/Sil)
@=guest at Bilbo’s Farewell Party
(f)=female (n)=neutral

POINTS: TG=Tolkien Gateway,EoA=Encyclopedia of Arda,Wik=Wikipedia,RF=Robert Foster’s Complete Guide to Middle-earth,JT=J.E.A. Tyler’s Tolkien Companion,DD=David Day’s A-Z of Tolkien,HC=Humphrey Carpenter’s Biography,JG=John Garth’s Tolkien and the Great War,JR=John Rateliff’s History of The Hobbit,DK=Douglas Kane’s Arda Reconstructed,MD=Michael Drout’s Tolkien Encyclopedia,Let=Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien,LR/SL/CH=Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, Children of Húrin,UT/HM=Unfinished Tales, History of Middle-earth,HoF+=votes from the Hall of Fire thread that initiated this project + a composite of selected favourite character lists.


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:49 pm 
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(I've been wondering, how come you usually link to live versions of the songs? Just curious.)

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:55 pm 
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I would guess that there are two reasons. One, most YouTube videos of songs are live. And two, live music is almost always better!

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:55 am 
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I look for the best applicable version of each song, yovargas. Most, but not all, in my opinion are live. I'd be interested in your take on specifics, if you at all disagree, though only 30 remain... :)


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:10 am 
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Only two more Hobbit characters, yes? Neither of which will appear in the next batch, I'm fairly confident.

ETA: Actually I guess there is a third who plays a minor role, who also won't be in the next batch.

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:05 am 
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:shock:

5 Hobbit characters remain!

And if you mean actual hobbits, 6!

edited: BTW I'm not even including Jackson's movies, which would add a few more! :)


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:57 pm 
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Can't wait to see what number Tauriel is!

As for the other two, duh, and double duh! :roll: :roll: [ETA: actually, I think one of those two will appear in the next batch, by my calculation, though we will see]

And if you took characters mentioned in older drafts of the Hobbit, there would be two more, too!

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:49 pm 
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Dân o Nandor on Anduin wrote:
BTW I'm not even including Jackson's movies, which would add a few more! :)


That said, it would be interesting to read another list, nicknamed for example the „New Zealand 30“, which ranks all the invented characters from the movies. I am guessing Tauriel would take first place. But then again, how would you rank it? Screen-time? Lines?

I will have to listen to all those songs eventually. Out of ranks #40-#31, I only knew the songs for Éowyn, Melian, Glaurung, and Thorin. I thought Thorin's song was particularly funny.


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:12 am 
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Beutlin wrote:
Dân o Nandor on Anduin wrote:
BTW I'm not even including Jackson's movies, which would add a few more! :)


That said, it would be interesting to read another list, nicknamed for example the „New Zealand 30“, which ranks all the invented characters from the movies. I am guessing Tauriel would take first place. But then again, how would you rank it? Screen-time? Lines?


Some would suggest that Faramir should top such a list, since he had so little to do with the book character. ;) (An opinion that I do not share.)

Just killing time until the next installment. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:02 am 
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Time has been killed, and we move on. Interesting you mention Faramir!

(If you mean Beren & Lúthien as the 2 Hobbit characters mentioned in the drafts, yes we'll have 11 of the top 20 as Hobbit characters, counting Jackson - an no, Tauriel is not one of them).

We’ll do batches of 5 from here on in. This batch I call ‘4 Men and a Lady’…


#30 Faramir, Prince of Ithilien – gondorian dúnadan ruling-prince
[TG:110,EoA:14,Wik:65,RF:17,JT:32,MD:47,DD:23,JG:1,HC:1,Let:2,LR/SL/CH:18,UT/HM:38,HoF+:38=406pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Faramir
Making the top-30 might seem pretty high for this younger brother, but let’s not forget he is who Tolkien likened himself to the most. Garth even notes this in his Tolkien and the Great War, following it up by saying “Faramir, of course, is an officer but also a scholar, with a reverence for the old histories and sacred values that helps him through the bitter war”. Along with entries in Drout and Day, Faramir even makes Carpenter’s Biography, as he notes letters written to CT in 1944: “A new character has come on the scene (I am sure I did not invent him, I did not even want him, though I like him, but there he came walking into the woods of Ithilien) - Faramir, the brother of Boromir – and he is holding up the ‘catastrophe’ by a lot of stuff about the history of Gondor and Rohan. If he goes on much more, a lot of him will have to be removed to the appendices”. I think he deserves his place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEgXe-gQxX4

#29 Arwen Undómiel, Queen of the Re-United Kingdom of Arnor & Gondor (f) – noldo queen
[TG:117,EoA:14,Wik:53,RF:20,JT:15,MD:53,DD:36,DK:1,JR:3,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:25,UT/HM:50,HoF+:20=408pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Arwen_Undomiel
Is her standing boosted slightly, on Tolkien Gateway & Wikipedia, due to Jackson’s use of her? Possibly. (But it also makes my song choice, with Arwen’s ‘other’ dad, rather easy, though the lyrics certainly don’t apply…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvKF3WQYADk

#28 Isildur, 2nd High King of Arnor & Gondor – gondorian dúnadan king
[TG:91,EoA:4,Wik:40,RF:25,JT:55,MD:7,DD:32,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:19,UT/HM:56,HoF+:85=415pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Isildur
Of his line (after Elrond), he is the 2nd last who’ll appear. No question, one of the most important characters to the Story. In fact, getting 4 votes on the initial thread of most important characters in the Legendarium; only 4 characters getting more votes! That it was he who preserved the line of the White Trees, and that Sauron no doubt would have remembered his faithful deeds back in Númenor, furthers his importance, and in a positive light, not the negative one that he ultimately displays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyqffz7K7aU

#27 Húrin Thalion, 7th Lord of the Third House – 3rd-house adan lord
[TG:64,EoA:11,Wik:31,RF:35,JT:58,MD:2,DD:34,DK:12,JR:4,JG:1,LR/SL/CH:20,UT/HM:120;HoF+25=417pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/H%C3%BArin_Thalion
He gets the most points awarded thus far from Kane’s Arda Reconstructed. Surprisingly, he gets no points from the initial thread of most important-characters, though he gets a healthy 25pts from the favourite-character lists. I don’t think I added to those lists, but Húrin would’ve gotten a 2nd place vote from me if I had.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJx5626euOo

#26 Tuor Eladar, father of Eärendil and Lord of the House of the Wing of Gondolin – 3rd-house adan lord
[TG:155,EoA:8,Wik:25,RF:31,JT:101,MD:3,DD:26,DK:4,JR:2,JG:2,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:19,UT/HM:75,HoF+:13=465pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Tuor
The largest jump in points is now taken, as Tuor surpasses Húrin by 48! With Faramir, Arwen, Húrin and Tuor in the same batch of 5, I think this can be considered a class of valedictorians. And since Isildur was only stained by the Ring, as were others of prominence, he can join arm-in-arm here with the other band members. (No not a Beatles song, but if you can’t connect these lyrics with Tuor, you’re really not trying very hard…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWdrtR8qXYs


glossary:

*=as in CT's indexing in UT (ie. characters not appearing in Hobbit/LotR/AdvTB/Sil)
@=guest at Bilbo’s Farewell Party
(f)=female (n)=neutral

POINTS: TG=Tolkien Gateway,EoA=Encyclopedia of Arda,Wik=Wikipedia,RF=Robert Foster’s Complete Guide to Middle-earth,JT=J.E.A. Tyler’s Tolkien Companion,DD=David Day’s A-Z of Tolkien,HC=Humphrey Carpenter’s Biography,JG=John Garth’s Tolkien and the Great War,JR=John Rateliff’s History of The Hobbit,DK=Douglas Kane’s Arda Reconstructed,MD=Michael Drout’s Tolkien Encyclopedia,Let=Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien,LR/SL/CH=Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, Children of Húrin,UT/HM=Unfinished Tales, History of Middle-earth,HoF+=votes from the Hall of Fire thread that initiated this project + a composite of selected favourite character lists.


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:23 pm 
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Well, four of the five songs are great, almost perfect choices. Too bad you couldn't come up with a good choice for he whom I guided to Gondolin. ;)

Interesting that Húrin has the most points thus far from AR, but it makes sense, since the limited use of the Wanderings is such a major issue that I discuss. But I do note that you say "thus far" which makes me wonder who surpasses him. Galadriel? Hmmm? I wouldn't think so, but I can't think who else is left that would make sense (but then, I have forfeited any credibility whatsoever with my ridiculous "two characters from The Hobbit left" comment).

Both Húrin and his nephew Tuor, who surpasses him by one, have sons left to come, and both had wives in the top 100, but out of the top 50, yes?

Back to the songs, I'm particularly happy to see the left-handed master's "Watchtower" for Húrin. I'm sure you know that Dylan claimed that when he performed this song, he felt like he was covering Jimi, even though it was Mr. Zimmerman who wrote it. I will add, because I must, that some of the most incendiary solos that my look alike Jerry performed were also on this song. And while I am less of a fan, I have to admit that Sweet Emotion for Arwen and Closer to the Heart for Faramir are inspired choices, and "Lord it is Mine" is all but perfect for Isildur (who I am surprised comes before his daddy, unless I've missed the elf-friend some how).

I was expecting Elrond in this batch, but then I was expecting ten, not five, so maybe I was still right.

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:01 pm 
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Isildur's daddy was back at #37.

Elrond, probably because he's a Hobbit character, will be just shy of the next 5, actually cracking the top 20. And no credibility lost, as I've made more than my share of blunders along the way ;).

Yes, I'm of course aware of Dylan & Watchtower, but didn't know about your doppleganger's connection. And maybe I should have used a different version for the last Genesis/Gabriel/Collins song that'll appear...


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:25 pm 
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Dân o Nandor on Anduin wrote:
Isildur's daddy was back at #37.


I searched through the master list, but of course that group hasn't been added yet. You would think though that I would have remembered such a recent entry!

Quote:
Elrond, probably because he's a Hobbit character, will be just shy of the next 5, actually cracking the top 20. And no credibility lost, as I've made more than my share of blunders along the way ;).


In that case my prediction for the next five is Legolas Greenleef.

Quote:
Yes, I'm of course aware of Dylan & Watchtower, but didn't know about your doppleganger's connection. And maybe I should have used a different version for the last Genesis/Gabriel/Collins song that'll appear...


I was just teasing about the Peter Gabriel song. ;) As for Jerry and Watchtower, I'll see if I can find a representative example:


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:05 pm 
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I would say the Dead's version is easily the 2nd best of the three I now know! Dylan's version gets played regularly over the music-system at work, to which a co-worker noted, "somebody is just butchering Hendrix's WatchTower"! :rofl:


This batch of 5 can be called ‘4-and-a-half members of the Fellowship’:


#25 Legolas ‘Greenleaf’, Prince of the Woodland Realm – sinda prince
[TG:192,EoA:54,Wik:55,RF:18,JT:33,MD:58,DD:24,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:9,UT/HM:38,HoF+:22=504pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Legolas
He who, according to Tolkien, accomplished the least of the Fellowship, opens the top-25, and also begins those characters exceeding 500pts! His 192pts from Tolkien Gateway is the most tallied thus far in a single segment of my spreadsheet, and will take character #20 to equal that number from UT/HoMe, and character #17 to surpass it with 213pts from the Encyclopedia of Arda. Legolas is followed just below by his eventual brother-in-arms. (Both of whom gave me the most difficulty coming up with the perfects songs, so although this is not a usual top-100 classic-rock contender, I owe this next late suggestion for Mr. Greenleaf to Sador of TORN…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot7tG5LWmRY

#24 Gimli ‘Elf-friend’, Lord of ‘the Glittering Caves’ of Aglarond – dwarf lord
[TG:145,EoA:16,Wik:50,RF:26,JT:33,MD:95,DD:27,JR:6,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:15,UT/HM:50,HoF+:40=504pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gimli
He’s exactly tied in points with Legolas, appropriately enough, though Gimli has more points from the literary sources that provide indexed pages, thus he has the tie-breaker. His 40pts from the favourite-character lists I used ranks him 4th overall on that account! (The first song is the perfect one for Gimli in my opinion, as the older Bradley Delp even had a certain dwarvish resemblance, but the second would probably be a better candidate for 24th greatest classic rock-song...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPqy2_Sux6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzxHx-mOqRI

#23 Glorfindel, Lord of the House of the Golden Flower of Gondolin – noldo lord
[TG:155:,EoA:36,Wik:55,RF:20,JT:78,MD:45,DD:29,DK:1,JR:2,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:9,UT/HM:54;HoF+:23=508pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Glorfindel
I guess I had more than an objective role in influencing his points, as it was I who wrote his entry in Drout’s Encyclopedia. But I was given a word-limit! In it, I reference Tolkien’s late conclusion (HoMe12), that Glorfindel of Rivendell was one and the same entity, though reincarnated, as Glorfindel of Gondolin; so all resources totalled ‘both’ of their points. I’m not sure that any other character comes close to having 2 roles as vital as Glorfindel, saving heroes central to the stories of the First and Third Ages, along with their respective quests, companions, and items. (Just consider Garfunkel of Gondolin, and Simon of Rivendell…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVDg8fVC4EQ

#22 Peregrin I ‘Pippin’ Took, 32nd Thain of the Shire @ – hobbit thain
[TG:130,EoA:18,Wik:57,RF:31,JT:72,MD:72,DD:34,JR:2,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:23,UT/HM:90,HoF+:15=545pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Pippin
Like Legolas & Gimli above, Pippin and Merry follow each other, coming just shy of the top-20. (And since I seem to be honouring those that have passed on recently...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRzKUVjHkGk

#21 Meriadoc the Magnificent ‘Merry’ Brandybuck, Master of Buckland @ – hobbit master
[TG:129,EoA:8,Wik:26,RF:48,JT:102,MD:71,DD:35,JR:7,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:20,UT/HM:80,HoF+:22=549pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Meriadoc_Brandybuck
If you’ve always thought that Merry was an awkward name that took a little getting used to, consider that he was Marmaduke Brandybuck for the longest time in the drafts! His references under that name maybe contributed to him just beating Pippin. (This song-choice was virtually a dead heat, as lyrics apply in both, and both are among the greats. It was probably Wilko185’s comments in this TORC thread that began my swaying back-&-forth: http://forums.theonering.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=107069…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylbRDXKSauQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StkKW61XYnI


glossary:

*=as in CT's indexing in UT (ie. characters not appearing in Hobbit/LotR/AdvTB/Sil)
@=guest at Bilbo’s Farewell Party
(f)=female (n)=neutral

POINTS: TG=Tolkien Gateway,EoA=Encyclopedia of Arda,Wik=Wikipedia,RF=Robert Foster’s Complete Guide to Middle-earth,JT=J.E.A. Tyler’s Tolkien Companion,DD=David Day’s A-Z of Tolkien,HC=Humphrey Carpenter’s Biography,JG=John Garth’s Tolkien and the Great War,JR=John Rateliff’s History of The Hobbit,DK=Douglas Kane’s Arda Reconstructed,MD=Michael Drout’s Tolkien Encyclopedia,Let=Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien,LR/SL/CH=Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, Children of Húrin,UT/HM=Unfinished Tales, History of Middle-earth,HoF+=votes from the Hall of Fire thread that initiated this project + a composite of selected favourite character lists.


Last edited by Dân o Nandor on Anduin on Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:59 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:48 pm 
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It does seem fitting that both Legolas and Gimli and Merry and Pippin would be grouped together, respectively, although I somehow thought that Gimli would be higher (maybe because of Tolkien's comment about Legolas accomplishing the least of the members of the Fellowship). I'm glad that Glorfindel is as high as he is (and there certainly should be no controversy over his being treated as the same character in both the First and Third Ages).

Quite pleased to see Joe Crocker make an appearance. I assume this was not the first CCR song, though I am not remembering another. I like both of your choices for Merry very much, but clearly Sador's suggestion for Mr. Greenleaf is superior. ;)

(I almost posted a version of Watchtower with the Dead fronting Dylan, but much as I love Bob, his singing wasn't cutting it for me on this occasion. Similar to your co-worker's comment about Bob butchering Jimi's Watchtower, I once heard someone mention that they heard Bob Marley do a reggae version of Clapton's "I Shot the Sherriff".)

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:01 pm 
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The Wind Cries...Merry :) :)
Bridge Over Troubled Water :) :)

But

Rock And Roll :scratch: :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:50 pm 
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"Lonely, lonely, lonely, time" since Tauriel went for Dori, or Kili, or whoever it was? ;)

Hey, it was the 2nd song of the two, so no reason to complain. :) (I've heard Zep's 'R&R' on every list I've ever witnessed. I've never heard S&G's 'Leaves' on any...)

Let me tell you though, a tear comes to my eye every time listening to that version of 'Bridge Over Troubled Water', thinking not only of Glorfindel's special role(s), but the things that have come out in the recent past of the animosity between S & G. Same story, all bands though...

Hey, Top 20 next!

EDIT: I have removed Zep's R&R, being well-advised, so the comments above should be duly noted as such...


Last edited by Dân o Nandor on Anduin on Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:02 pm 
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Poor, poor Dori, or Kili, or whoever it was? ;)

I hadn't heard 'Leaves That Are Green' before. It's lovely. :) (Why do I only own one S&G album again...?)

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