Tolkien's Pictorial Code Letters

[Jnyusa]

Brian, I agree that the edges are clipped. I thought so on the first letter, too - that the right side was clipped because the abrupt termination of A500 = AD does not make sense.

Good work on the limerick! Couldn't find anything in the French dictionary that would suggest what the word 'cheefongy' might mean.

Jn

[Jnyusa]

the screwdriver is a "pick" followed by "ures" on the next line? Pictures?

But they are separated by the twig thingy ... still thinking

Jn

eta: right, right, the teapot goes with the pick, followed by 'ures'

pick+t+ures = pictures

So the teapot does not belong to the 'dawn" - that's not 'don't, and the ham and twig thing must go together.

Sorry to double post like this ... I didn't realize I had another post at the top of the second page while in the reply box.

Jn

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

I like the "buddy" suggestion. I was still thinkinf of that as a pea-pod, because of the similarity to the pea-pod in the "piano" rebus on the other letter.

When focusing on the "ham" of the left, it almost looks (at times) like the outer part is a hole, like a mouse hole, and the interior down to the right and bottom and a mouse's snout with a tiny eye and ears etc becoming visible.

The mouse is looking down and to the right.

(Again, I am just letting my imagination run, and I may be seeing things, since this is close to the limit of resolution on picking out these details.)

Sometimes it looks like a chrysalis.

I did a google search on "cheefongy" and got no hits.

I was thinking that it could be a dig at French Cuisine "cheese fungus", "cheese fondue" etc all wrapped up in a neologism.

BrianIs AtYou

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

the screwdriver is a "pick" followed by "ures" on the next line? Pictures?

But they are separated by the twig thingy ... still thinking

Jn

eta: right, right, the teapot goes with the pick, followed by 'ures'

pick+t+ures = pictures

So the teapot does not belong to the 'dawn" - that's not 'don't, and the ham and twig thing must go together.

Sorry to double post like this ... I didn't realize I had another post at the top of the second page while in the reply box.

Jn

This is interesting.

If the "teapot" goes with the "pick", that could the "bud/pea-pod" and "eye" go with the "ham" and "s" and spool of thread?

With this revelation, could the whole beginning (ignoring the bud etc for now) be "Am sending (U) you (1)won-derful [conjecture] pictures....WE have found two lovely...etc"


BrianIs AtYou

[Jnyusa]

'wonderful' makes perfect sense! But I can't figure out how to get it out of the pod/bud thing ... unless we're missing a whole picture on the left.

The sunrise also defeats me ... rise, set, dawn, dusk, horizon, sun, water, sea, east, west ... I thought of "even" as well, a shortening form of evening, but althought it's a word it doesn't help at all. I just can't think how to fit it in. Same story with the ' -ome in spite of'

Ah! sea ... = C? 'come in spite of' ... got to look if it's in the right place.

be right back

Jn

edit: Yes! That's it. The sunrise is sea, for the letter c.

So now I have to go back to the second rebus ....

YES! I've got it now. The whole second line and beginning of the third is the word "pictures"

Pea + eye + sea + tea + ures = pictures

That means the pick must not be a pick ... it must be something else.

Hacking away, hacking away ...

edit: well, I can't figure out what it is - a pick, a screwdriver, an eyedropper ... and I can't figure out the vertical word in front of 'have found' ... top two letters look like [a + cross] = across but I can't read the bottom two so I've no clue what they might be.

Enough for tonight!

[truehobbit]

V., we're all little kids trying to solve the pirate map!

That is so well put, Jny!

You guys are totally brilliant!

I'll think more about the things you discussed later, but for now I just wanted to add to Brian's:

Sending is S + "end" written out in the thread coming from the spool. -ing is hypothetical based on the large "letter" that could be a very large script lower-case g.

Cool, I had been unable to decipher either "end" or "g" there!

Given that, it's not hypothetical, it's "end in g"!

[Jnyusa]

Right, Hobby! Very good!

End 'in' G
Like R 'on' ALD

Wish I knew what that pokey, picky, dohinky thing is in the first line.

Jn

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

If sea = c

then in the first letter, the section:

You are to be _ _ _

not to_ _ _ _ _ _me in

spite of Father Dennis

would become

You are to be [ready] * per another suggestion above

not to come in

spite of Father Dennis

What do you think?

BrianIs AtYou

[Jnyusa]

Brian! Yes, I believe that 'not to come' is correct

I thought about the red color being part of the word AD as well -- was thinking of read or reading but ready works even better.


It's a bit of a cheat, though, isn't it? - because then the AD appear twice so to speak. The only other letter he seems to consider redundant is the H.

Another other odd thing is that it seems more sensical to say 'ready to come in spite of Fr. Dennis,' rather than 'ready not to come in spite of Fr. Dennis ... usually, you know, a person does something in spite of another, rather than refusing to do something in spite of another. It's an odd formulation. But the 'not' is plain ... so ... still thinking about this!!

Jn

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

Brian! Yes, I believe that 'not to come' is correct

I thought about the red color being part of the word AD as well -- was thinking of read or reading but ready works even better.


It's a bit of a cheat, though, isn't it? - because then the AD appear twice so to speak. The only other letter he seems to consider redundant is the H.

Another other odd thing is that it seems more sensical to say 'ready to come in spite of Fr. Dennis,' rather than 'ready not to come in spite of Fr. Dennis ... usually, you know, a person does something in spite of another, rather than refusing to do something in spite of another. It's an odd formulation. But the 'not' is plain ... so ... still thinking about this!!

Jn

One alternative that I had thought of for "ready" (and which is equally speculative) is "advised", where the "ad" comes from the obvious--and I am trying to figured out how to back into "-vised".

Sometimes it works better to speculate on the message (based on existing text and what would make sense) and then argue back from that idea, then to examine the rebus itself and argue forward. This was how I postulated "sending" even though I could not justify the "in". But given the idea, Truehobbit was able to argue back and justify it.

Is there a way to justify "advised" that would be more compelling than "ready"? Or is it a dead end?

Edit:

Actually I came up with an extremely elaborate and clever (perhaps too clever) way to justify "advised", which depends on multiple simultaneous interpretations of the 500.

A + 500 (D) + v (5 in 500) + eyes (two 0's in 500 are a pair of eyes ) + D (500 put back together again, ) = advised

This is quite a stretch--but I'd rather put the idea out, than sit on it.

BrianIs AtYou

[truehobbit]

"not to come"!!!



*faints*

That's brilliant, guys!

Brian, looking back and forth, that's what I'm doing all the time - first I try to figure out what it says, and when I've got an idea, I try to think of what would make sense in the context and try to "recognise" the words that would make sense.

That said, I think "advised" doesn't really make sense here. If Father Francis didn't come, he probably has to be chid or something like that.

OOoh - I've got an idea!

How about: you are too bad not to come

2 + b(ee) + A + D



As to the use of "in", "on" - that's a common technique in a rebus, and I've been trying to find something similar for all the other letter-combinations, thinking there must be reason they are arranged the way they are arranged. (Like "W" on top of "E", or the way URES are arranged - but I guess Tolkien just sometimes arranged them prettily without giving extra meaning to that.)
So, I couldn't find anything else, so far.

[Jnyusa]

Bee + A. D. = bad

You are too bad not to come, in spite of Fr. Dennis.

Possible Fr. Dennis came in his stead, as 'Edmund' did in the other letter?

Jn

Ok - so the first letter would then read:

Woodside
Cottage Rednal

My dear wise owl, Fr. Francis,

You are too bad not to come, in spite of Fr. Dennis.

I am so sorry you did not like the word ‘piano’ in my last letter so I ...

I am not totally confident about 'the word piano' but can't think of anything else.


And the second letter would then read:

Am sending you one/won[ ] pictures. We [ ] have found two lovely walks to take you when you do ! com[ ] [ ]ou th[heart] which we hope will be soon.

where the brackets are the bits that are still missing. I do think the left side of this rebus is shaved. There is surely a Y in front of 'ou' and an E after 'com'

Jn

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

I think "come" just works on the principle of sound, and finding the "e" is not necessary.

I think the next word is "out"

out = ou + t (teapot)

Come out

I do not think that there is a "heart" following "out". What appears to be the left side of a heart is actually the lowest lobe of the yew tree above. This can be verified by comparing to the picture of the yew tree on the other letter, and it can be seen that he always drew it with three bushy areas. This is just the lowest of the three.

BrianIs AtYou

[truehobbit]

Bee + A. D. = bad

That's what I just said!

(:D Just feeling bouncy to think we've almost solved it all! )

[ ]ou th[heart]

I've totally overlooked the heart until now!
Or isn't this the basis of the yew-plant?

There is surely a Y in front of 'ou' and an E after 'com'

Hmmh, I agree the letter seems clipped, but if there were two letters missing, it would be clipped a lot - there would be things missing in the other lines, too. And the "lovely walks" seem to make sense, as well as "have found", there doesn't seem to be anything missing there.

Edit: and Brian just said what I wrote while I was offline!

[truehobbit]

out = ou + t (teapot)

Come out

Good thought!

What do we make of the H, though? Is it just to be added to "witch"? That doesn't seem right, I think.

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

out = ou + t (teapot)

Come out

Good thought!

What do we make of the H, though? Is it just to be added to "witch"? That doesn't seem right, I think.

Well, "which" has an "H" after the "w", unlike "witch" (though there is probably a much better explanation).

However, in "formal" pronunciation, "which" and other words with "wh" at the beginning (like "when", "where") are supposed to be pronounced "hwich", "hwen"--the w is aspirated, and he may be emphasizing this (in opposition to the way that "h" is dropped, as in "ham" becoming "am" earlier in the letter.)

BrianIs AtYou

[Jnyusa]

Hobby, we cross posted! I just realized, coming back to read tonight, that you said the same thing.

Now give me a minute to read the other posts since then!

aha! It's not a heart, it's an ear H + EAR = here

when you do come out here, which we hope will be soon.

I think the explanation point is just for emphsis of the 'do'

Jn

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

Jn

Your explantation of the "h" sounds correct. That is almost everything.

BrianIs AtYou (almost done wrapping gifts!)

[Roccondil]

Hi, everyone! I've read all these posts with great interest. It's so good to see both of these letters almost completely solved! I put on my thinking cap over Christmas, but I see that many of my thoughts are already somewhere in all the posts.

I have just a few points to add to Letter 2 however.

The picture at the end of line 1 (the tool) is an awl.

The full sentence which stretches to the start of line 3 therefore reads "Am sending you one all pictures", which I assume must refer to the fact that the previous letter perhaps contained both picture code and an ordinary letter as well.
The remaining two sentences, which read

“We each have found two lovely walks to take you when you do! Come out here which we hope will be soon.”

Only make complete sense to me if the order of the sentences is reversed. That is

“Come out here which we hope will be soon. We each have found two lovely walks to take you when you do!”

It may be that young Ronald had prepared both sentences separately and then copied them on to the final letter in the wrong order. What do you all think?

By the way, I think the cut-off word in the poem is dances, not classes.

Regarding the first letter, I think no better interpretation can be given on the basis of what we now have. The addition in the top right of the letter (1-2) indicates to me that someone has marked this as being the first page of two, so I guess it all depends now on whether we can get hold of a copy of page 2!

[Jnyusa]

Thanks, Roccondil!

Yes, the awl (all) makes perfect sense.

And we must be missing page 2 on the first letter because it does stop in mid sentence.

It's possible that the order of the sentences was reversed in the second letter. I do put exclamation points in the middle of a sentence (!) from time to time, but always in parentheses.

There's not another name for that particular punctuation mark, is there? It occurred to me that he might have intended it as an actual word or part of a word.

Jn