Tolkien, Jews and Mandela

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'm sure it won't surprise anyone that I would opt for the "complete coincidence" option.

Is that is based on you having researched the question of whether Tolkien was at all influenced by oriental languages and writing and concluding that he was not? Or is it based on your general opinion that nothing that Tolkien did or said meant anything not obvious on its face?

In truth, Tolkien loved and was long fascinated by calligraphy, and it is perfectly natural to assume that he was familiar with oriental writing, probably the most advanced form of calligraphy in the world (although I have no evidence of this at this time). Perhaps one of our more knowledgable linguists will show up and express an opinion.

[Frelga]

Well, V, aren't we caustic this year? I concur with "complete coincidence" theory. Tolkien's work was entirely Anglo- and Nordic- centric. While he may have been familiar with caligraphy, even if I have never heard of his interest in anything oriental, it is hard for me to believe that he would draw from Japanese or Chinese for something so intimate as his monogram.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I don't mean to be caustic. But I don't trust coincidences. I don't think I'll say anymore, lest I be accused of something worse than being caustic.

[Alatar]

What Frelga said. Occam's Razor holds true here as everywhere else. There's simply no good reason to assume any connection.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

There's simply no good reason to assume any connection.

There's actually two reasons to think that there might be a connection. One is the close resemblance between the monogram and the character. The other is Tolkien's "abiding interest in alphabets and scripts" (as Scull and Hammond put it) from the time he was a boy. It certainly is possible, perhaps even likely, that it is just a coincidence. But I'm not prepared to simply assume that it is, without trying to look into the question some more. Thus far I haven't been able to find any additional evidence that suggests that Tolkien fascination with "alphabets and scripts" extended to Oriental languages, lending some additional credence to the supposition that the similarity is merely a coincidence (though my knowledge in the area is very small). If I discover anything further, I'll certainly post it here. And if anyone else comes across any concrete evidence that shows that Tolkien was not interested in or influenced by Oriental writing, please share it here as well.

[Alatar]

Oh there's certainly a possibility, I just don't find it probable. Looking through "Pictures by JRR Tolkien", there are loads of heraldic designs, simple patterns, flowers, and examples of Elvish script, apart from the more complete pictures. Some of these are even in biro on newspaper. I find it highly unlikely that Tolkien would not have left behind a few scraps of Japanese/Chinese characters if he had been studying them even in passing.

The thing is that the JRRT Logo is a very typical British Monogram such as those usually embroidered on Handkerchiefs. Given that many people used Monograms, particularly among the upper classes and that the JRRT Monogram is the most obviously symmetrical way of combining the letters of Tolkien's name, I really find no reason to look further. Obviously, your mileage may vary.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

[Alatar]

[MithLuin]

I have to agree with the idea that it is coincidence. My main reason is that if I look at what that kanji means, I see no reason to want my name to mean that. There seems little incentive for a cross-over, and, again, no evidence that Tolkien was familiar with this subject. Just because he was interested in language and alphabets doesn't necessarily mean he could read hieroglyphics, for instance.

The Ainu are a people of Japan. The first time I saw the name, I immediately thought of the Ainur. It is of course possible that Tolkien had heard of them, and lifted the name for his own story. But...it seems more a coincidence to me. Now, if they were a Finnish people....that would be different!

[Anduril]

More on look-alikes: JRRT reminds me of Q.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

From Wayne Hammond and Christina Scull:

It's almost certainly a coincidence. Although Tolkien had an early liking for Japanese prints, we've recorded no interest in or study of Chinese or Japanese (see the essay "Languages" in The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide: Reader's Guide). Nor was it necessary: the idea of intertwining letters to form monograms (or ciphers) has a long history in the West, and Tolkien developed his now-familiar JRRT monogram after trying out a series of simpler versions.

Wayne & Christina

So there you have it. I still think it was worth looking into, but now I'm satisfied. Now I'd like to see the "series of simpler versions."

[Pearly Di]

More on look-alikes: JRRT reminds me of Q.

LOL, there is a likeness!

I thought Q was that guy from Star Trek.

You know, the 'human race totally sucks' Q.