The armour of Fate

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Voronwë the Faithful
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The armour of Fate

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Nowhere in all of Tolkien's writings does he make more explicit his views on Fate then in the following words of Ulmo to Tuor, in "Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin" in Unfinished Tales:
Ulmo spoke to Tuor of Valinor and its darkening, and the Exile of the Noldor, and the Doom of Mandos, and the hiding of the blessed Realm. 'But behold!' said he, 'in the armour of Fate (as the Children of Earth name it) there is ever a rift, and in the walls of Doom a breach, until the full-making, which ye call the End. So it shall be while I endure, a secret voice that gainsayeth, and light where darkness was decreed. Therefor, though in the days of this darkness I seem to oppose the will of my brethren, the Lords of the West, that is my part among them, to which I was appointed ere the making of the World. Yet Doom is strong, and the shadow of the enemy lengthens; and I am diminished, until in Middle-earth I am become now no more than a secret whisper. The waters that run westward wither, and their springs are poisoned, and my power withdraws from the land; for Elves and Men grow blind and deaf to me because of the might of Melkor. And now the Curse of Mandos hastens to its fulfillment, and all the works of the Noldor shall perish, and every hope which they build shall crumble. The last hope alone is left, the hope that they have not looked for and have not prepared. And that hope lieth in thee; for so I have chosen.'

'Then shall Turgon not stand against Morgoth, as all the Eldar yet hope?' said Tuor. 'And what wouldst thou of me, Lord, if I come now to Turgon? For though I am indeed willing to do as my father and stand by that king in his need, yet of little avail shall I be, a mortal man alone, among so many and so valiant of the High Folk of the West.'

'If I choose to send thee, Tuor son of Huor, then believe not that thy one sword is not worth the sending. For the valour of the Edain the Elves shall ever remember as the ages lengthen, marvelling that they gave life so freely of which they had on earth so little. But it is not for thy valour only that I send thee, but to bring into the world a hope beyond thy sight, and a light that shall pierce the darkness.'

That really says everything that needs to be said, right there. :) In the armour of Fate, there is ever a rift: there is always room for the will of God's creations to affect the destiny that He decreed. A light that shall pierce the darkness:

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:love:
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Sassafras
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Post by Sassafras »

That really says everything that needs to be said, right there
:D

I've got some reading to do ... and then I'll be back if my preliminary thoughts are justified. Or not.

:horse:
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Ever mindful of the maxim that brevity is the soul of wit, axordil sums up the Sil:


"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."

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Post by Jnyusa »

But it is not for thy valour only that I send thee, but to bring into the world a hope beyond thy sight, and a light that shall pierce the darkness.'

That could be said of Tolkien himself. :)

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Voronwë the Faithful
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Indeed. :)
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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MithLuin
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Post by MithLuin »

Okay, so tell me this:

How did Huor know that his son would marry Turgon's daughter and produce said "hope"?

Keeping in mind that his son wasn't quite born yet....

Granted, the discussion was near Ulmo-enchanted waters, but still.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

The Huor spoke and said: 'Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and from me a new star shall arise. Farewell!
The foresight of impending death is not uncommon in Tolkien's work. See, for instance, Fëanor's foresight before he died that Morgoth would never be vanquished by the Eldar.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Post by MithLuin »

Oh, I know that. I guess I meant, how does that foresight work, if Ulmo is contravening fate by sending Tuor to Gondolin? Foresight is intertwined with fate, isn't it? I mean, I see it as flash of insight provided to Ilúvatar, so it could go either way....but it seems so closely connected to the concept of 'doom.'
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Ah, I see what you are getting at. Here is where it gets complicated. Because consider these words:

Therefore, though in the days of this darkness I seem to oppose the will of my brethren, the Lords of the West, that is my part among them, to which I was appointed ere the making of the World.

So, is Ulmo contravening Fate by sending Tuor, or is he actually Fated to contravene the Doom of Mandos? These words -- and the point you make about Huor's foresight -- would suggest the latter.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Post by Athrabeth »

Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote: consider these words:

Therefore, though in the days of this darkness I seem to oppose the will of my brethren, the Lords of the West, that is my part among them, to which I was appointed ere the making of the World.

So, is Ulmo contravening Fate by sending Tuor, or is he actually Fated to contravene the Doom of Mandos? These words -- and the point you make about Huor's foresight -- would suggest the latter.
I think that from pretty much the moment he is first introduced in the Sil, "Ulmo's part" is to oppose the will of his brethren in matters pertaining to the Children of Ilúvatar. I don't believe that these words just apply to contravening the Doom of Mandos. Ulmo is set apart from the other Valar from the very beginning - it is inherent in his very nature, derived from Eru "before the making of the world:
"But Ulmo was alone, and he abode not in Valinor, nor ever came thither unless there were need for a great council."
<snip>
"Then again the Valar were gathered in council, and they were divided in debate. For some, and of those Ulmo was the chief, held that the Quendi should be left free to walk as they would in Middle-earth, and with their gifts of skill to order all the lands and heal their hurts. But the most part feared for the Quendi in the dangerous world..."
<snip>
Now Ossë followed after the host of Olwë, and when they were come to the Bay of Eldamar he called to them; and they knew his voice, and begged Ulmo to stay their voyage. And Ulmo granted their request, and at his bidding Ossë made fast the island and rooted it to the foundations of the sea. Ulmo did this the more readily, for he understood the hearts of the Teleri, and in the council of the Valar he had spoken against the summons...The Valar were little pleased to learn what he had done..."
<snip>
"And thus it was by the power of Ulmo that even under the darkness of Melkor life coursed still through many secrect lodes, and the Earth did not die; and to all who were lost in that darkness or wandered far from the light of the Valar the ear of Ulmo was ever open; nor has he ever forsaken Middle-earth, and whatsoever may since have befallen of ruin or of change he has not ceased to take thought for it, and will not until the end of days."
What a guy. :love:

Mith, I think it was you who said in the Sil thread that you thought of Ulmo as a "counterpart" to Melkor. That comment really came to mind as I started mulling over a contribution to this discussion, and began rereading "Ulmo passages", some of which are quoted above. He is a "lone rebel" of sorts, isn't he? But where Melkor becomes blind to everything beyond his own needs, Ulmo becomes ever more open to the needs of those beyond himself. Unlike Melkor, he doesn't reject the entire world in hatred and self-importance, he embraces it with love and compassion.

And unlike the rest of the Valar, he chooses not to accept the Doom of Mandos.

What sets the "Doom" in these words that Mandos speaks? Is he speaking as the "mouthpiece" of Eru? Would Eru lay such a curse on his own Children? Would he cast them aside with no hope of redemption? I realize it seems to be the consensus on this matter, but it has never felt "right" to me that Eru would do this. So.....what sets the "Doom" in those words? And what gives it such power?

I think it's a matter of choice. Mandos lays out the stark and terrible consequences of the Noldor's actions, and they seem to stretch out into Time as a kind of "logical progression". In fact, I think it's probably more than just a matter of "seeming". This IS, undeniably, a path of Doom. The crimes, after all, seem unforgiveable, and the punishment fittingly unforgiving. But it is the Noldor themselves, and the Valar, and, I suppose, all the inhabitants of Aman, that choose to believe that the "Armour of Fate" has been forged strong and hard, that the Doom is set and irrevocable, that this path is the only path.

And in the choosing, the Doom is set and its binding power assured. :(

But Ulmo, the "loner", the great heart of the world, seeks for a "rift" in that Armour, for a "breach" in that Doom, by choosing not to believe in the absolute certainty of a path that cannot be changed. He sees beyond the terrible consequences falling like dominoes one upon the other until the utter end of the Noldor in Middle-earth, and knows, somehow, that there is still hope "unlooked for" that has escaped even the far-seeing gaze of Mandos and the wise heart of Manwë. He knows this, because he refuses to be bound by the limits of Doom itself. I believe he knows that
Eru's ultimate design for his Children must have some kind of light hidden and waiting even "where darkness was decreed", and he seeks it out and finds it so that it may show the way to another path, overlooked even by the greatest of the Valar.
Tolkien wrote:And thus it was that Arwen first beheld him again after their long parting; and as he came walking towards her under the trees of Caras Galadhon laden with flowers of gold, her choice was made and her doom appointed.
Tolkien also wrote:The last hope alone is left, the hope that they have not looked for and have not prepared. And that hope lieth in thee; for so I have chosen.'
Yes.....I do believe that for either good or ill, it is in the choosing that Doom is set.

And sometimes, "reset", thanks to a "secret voice that gainsayeth".
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Ath, I almost missed this post altogether! :shock: Somehow it got marked as "read" and I didn't see it until this evening. I'm so happy that I did. Great stuff!
Athrabeth wrote:But Ulmo, the "loner", the great heart of the world, seeks for a "rift" in that Armour, for a "breach" in that Doom, by choosing not to believe in the absolute certainty of a path that cannot be changed. He sees beyond the terrible consequences falling like dominoes one upon the other until the utter end of the Noldor in Middle-earth, and knows, somehow, that there is still hope "unlooked for" that has escaped even the far-seeing gaze of Mandos and the wise heart of Manwë. He knows this, because he refuses to be bound by the limits of Doom itself. I believe he knows that Eru's ultimate design for his Children must have some kind of light hidden and waiting even "where darkness was decreed", and he seeks it out and finds it so that it may show the way to another path, overlooked even by the greatest of the Valar.
Yes! The way that I think I like to look at it is that Ulmo perceives that Fate goes beyond Doom. Or even that it is his role to extend Fate beyond Doom by exploiting the rift in the armour of Fate that only he of all of the great Valar recognizes. But even lesser beings can do so, in certain circumstances.
Yes.....I do believe that for either good or ill, it is in the choosing that Doom is set.

And sometimes, "reset", thanks to a "secret voice that gainsayeth".
Exactly. :love:

Edit to add: I wanted to mention this passage from the Ainulindalë, which I think helps explain why Ulmo sees deeper and further then all the other Valar:
And they observed teh winds and the air, and the matters of which Arda was made,of iron and stone andsilver and gold and many substances: but of all these water they most greatly praised. And it is said by the Eldar that in water there live yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substanceelse that is in thisEarth.
:love: :love:
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Another thought from my close reading of the Ainulindalë in compiling the thread on the creation of the published Silmarillion.
... while the Ainur were yet gazing upon this vision, it was taken away and hidden from their site. ... the history was incomplete and the circles of time not full-wrought when the vision was taken away.
Thus the rift in the Armour of Fate and the breach in the walls of Doom. I know that Tolkien states in his letters that the Valar individually and even together do not have a full knowledge of the history of the World, but I still thought that a reminder of this explicit statement of the imcomplete nature of the Vision granted to the Ainur was worth making.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I split the discussion about whether Eärendil is a Christ-Figure into a new thread: Is Eärendil a Christ-Figure?
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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