This thread was split from Frelga's thread entitled "Garden of Eden" in the Tol Eressëa forum. Prim's first post is responding to vison's post in the other thread HERE. I left vison's post where it was because the first part belonged to the on-topic discussion. Jnyusa, 27 Feb., 5:51 PM, EST
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I would never attempt to straighten you out, vison , but most Christian denominations do not regard Mormons as Christians. (This is an extremely sore point with most of the many Mormons I've known.) Their views on what Heaven is and what happens to believers there are based on their own revelations, which aren't part of Christian scripture.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Matthew 22:29-32 wrote:29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
So, no marriage. If a sect is saying people remain married in Heaven, they are ignoring this scripture.
The Mormons do believe you are married in the afterlife... I think this is who you are referring to about "sealign" marriages. They believe eternity is spent eternally being pregnant with your offspring populating another planet... that being their highest form of heaven (I think, I'm not entirely sure here). Mormons are not a sect of Christianity. They are similar to Christianity like Christianity is similar to Judaism. Started the same, now totally different...
It's less superficially problematic for a Mormon to talk about eternal marriages, though, because they allow for polygyny. (Is that the right word?)
I always thought that questions about marriage in heaven were intended as a facile way to trip up those religions that don't believe in divorce ... like, if your husband dies and you remarry, which one will be your spouse in heaven? It's rather silly, imo, to demand that a religion divert its attention from questions about the meaning of life and the nature of God to focus on who you'll be married to in heaven. Hard for me to believe that anyone inquiring into another faith would be dissuaded from belief by the answer to a question like that.
I mean, its fun to speculate, but surely our faith doesn't rest on issues like that.
Jn
eta: Mormons do believe that Jesus is the redeemer of humankind. I don't think they reject the Bible, but they have an additional holy book with additional stories about Jesus.
Last edited by Jnyusa on Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Indeed, that is the context of the verses I quoted. The Sadducees, who were teaching there is no ressurection, were trying the trick question on Jesus of who among seven brothers who all married the same woman (after each successive one died... sucks to be in THAT family), so who would the woman be married to.
Jnyusa wrote:
eta: Mormons do believe that Jesus is the redeemer of humankind. I don't think they reject the Bible, but they have an additional holy book with additional stories about Jesus.
Yes, they do. No, they do not reject the Bible. However, but it's literally like me saying I practice Judaism because parts of the Torah are also part of the Bible.
The Mormons certainly consider themselves Christians. They believe redemption comes through Jesus Christ. Since that's pretty much the bottom line for all the disparate Christian denomination (some of which disagree quite vociferously on a lot of other matters), it seems only polite to call them Christians, too, even if there's a lot of extra material in their theology.
(Do you see what I mean? It's fine to point out that Mormons aren't Catholics, and Mormons aren't Lutherans, and Mormons aren't Greek Orthodox, but all of those groups consider themselves followers of Jesus Christ, thus, by definition, "Christians." Many in one sub-group would probably on bad days call members of another sub-group "not TRUE Christians" [hence much blood spillage during the wars between Catholics and Protestants], but in a general sense they're all Christians.)
All those other denominations do not claim to have an entire other book they say is divinely inspired and made known to only one man.. who did quite well by it.
Yes, Jesus is central to Christianity, but so is the Bible. There is so much in the Book of mormon that is NOT Christian, they cannot still claim to be Christians.
However, that's an entirely different topic, which should probably be discussed in a different forum...
Well, my father, who was a Lutheran pastor whose first church was in Mormon country, called them a "cult," and he is an intelligent and tolerant person, as a rule. I think there are some serious theological discrepancies, beyond the matter of redemption, that would distinguish Mormons from most Christian churches. The idea Hal mentions, for example, that after death and over time, each human (males only, I think) becomes THE God for an extraterrestrial planet.
Last edited by Primula Baggins on Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Since we don't have any Mormons here to defend themselves, we probably should move 'the Christianity of Mormonism' to another forum if people want to discuss that.
That sounds fair. I am not burning to discuss this.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Oh, sorry, Prim. We cross posted. I was responding to Hal's suggestion and did not mean to imply that Mormons were being attacked or something like that. Just that ... since we don't have any Mormons here who can explain their beliefs in their own words, the discussion probably belongs in Lasto.
after further research (of about half an hour ), there are so many reasons mormons aren't christians, I don't know what to say... I mean one simple thing... they think Jesus was Lucifer's brother...
You beat me to it, Jn. One of those rare occasions where a clean transfer can be made. I mean, if hal doesn't object to a thread split ... .
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Mormons may consider themselves Christian, they may say they believe in Jesus as the redeemer of humankind, but all the underlying meanings are different. Their Jesus is not my Jesus. Unfortunately I can't back up my claim with facts because I was so horrified by what I learned about Mormon belief (because they call themselves Christians) that I promptly expunged it from my mind.
Using the same words does not mean people believe the same things, if the words have different meanings for each of them.
Was this broken off from a thread that started elsewhere? It begins so abruptly.
eta: cross-posted. Where did this thread start, and as what?
I always regarded Mormons as Christians. And my Mormon friends call themselves Christians, so that's been sufficient for me.
They have many ideas and beliefs that seem extremely odd to me, but then, most religions do. This, I hasten to add, is not meant as an insult or to belittle anyone, it is an observation. Speaking completely as someone outside the fold, that is.
Doesn't seem to be much more to say. I tend to think that if they consider themselves to be Christians, so will I.
That makes perfect sense, vison, from a non-Christian point of view.
If two groups of people are playing two different games but both groups call their game baseball, and I don't know or care much about either game, then I suppose it wouldn't be problematic for me to refer to them both as baseball.
, but most Christian denominations do not regard Mormons as Christians. (This is an extremely sore point with most of the many Mormons I've known.) Their views on what Heaven is and what happens to believers there are based on their own revelations, which aren't part of Christian scripture.
), there are so many reasons mormons aren't christians, I don't know what to say... I mean one simple thing... they think Jesus was Lucifer's brother...
