A day with President Musharraf

[superwizard]

Hey everyone.

Today I spent most of the day with former Pakistani President Musharraf and I just thought I'd share my experiences with my friends here.

I was lucky because I was able to obtain a VIP pass (pulled a few strings) and so I was able to not only go to the main event but also to a small closed door Q&A session before and a reception afterwards. In general the event went rather well and smooth.

The private Q&A session was a rather tame affair for the most part but there were two questions that really bothered him and he showed it. The first question was: Why did Pakistan airlift Taliban from Afghanistan to Pakistan in (insert date that I forgot)? Musharraf got angry and vehemently denied that they did any such thing and stated that whoever said that was simply trying to malign him and the Pakistani army. The second question was: where has all the billions of American dollars given to Pakistan to combat terrorism gone and how do you respond to allegations saying that a lot of it went to corrupt government workers? He got really angry at that question (even going as far to call the question 'bullshit') and responded by saying that in the past 6 years pakistan has only received $10 billion half of which he claimed went as simply repayment of debt by Americans for using the Pakistani armies facilities.

In case you’re wondering I asked him how important he thought increasing literacy rates were for combating extremist ideologies and what he was particularly proud his government accomplished in this arena. He agreed that literacy and education in general were extremely important in combating extremism in the long term and he said he was particularly proud founding the National Commission for Human Development and talked about how it has helped increase literacy in pakistan significantly (21,000 Community Based Feeder Schools were established by this organization).

Then we went to the main talk given by him. The first 45 minutes he talked about how he believed extremism should be combated. He argued that the root causes of terrorism were poverty, illiteracy and political alienation. He said that if these issues were not tackled then even if all the branches (the extremist organizations) and the leaves (the actual extremists) were removed they would still keep coming up. He especially emphasized that the need for a Palestinian Israeli solution and a Kashmir solution. He went into much detail about how exactly his government addressed these issues (both the root issues and the 'branches' and 'leaves') but I didn't take notes and sadly I've forgotten a lot of the nitty gritty details.

The public Q&A session however was much less mild than the private one. The first person that got up immediately proceeded to holler accusations at Musharraf and then called him a liar and huffed out of there (there was some applause for his actions). Things didn't settle down after that however. Several students (to be honest mostly Pakistanis and Indians) really asked him difficult questions. For example one girl asked him why he signed a treaty forgiving Bhutto and her husband after he promised to combat corruption. He argued that after 10 years the trial in Switzerland had still not proven anything and so he reevaluated the issue and decided that for the sake of democracy he would allow them to return. Another girl asked him why he 'sold' I believe 600 prisoners to the US who placed them in Guantanamo as he said in his book. He argued that none of the 600 were Pakistani and that he had already offered them to their home countries that had refused them and that Pakistan had its hands full anyways and so he gave them to the US. He also (after getting a few angry questions from Indians) argued that there really needed to be an attempt to really strive for peace and cooperation in the region and that this old habit of slandering the other side must end. (Ironically he had said just a bit before: The people of India want war. The people of Pakistan do not want war, but will not shy away from war).

Afterwards the reception was much calmer and charming (all in all only ~20 students attended the private Q&A and the reception afterwards). Some students talked to President Musharraf while others talked to his wife and his friend (can't remember what but he was very high up in the Musharraf regime) and we took pictures with him and called it a day.

All in all an exciting and pleasant event. My opinions on him (I'm rather neutral towards him) did not really change much but it was a nice experience.

One final comment: something that he repeatedly stated which I found interesting was his argument that a governments main function was to provide the basic services that its people need and that if a democratically elected government failed at this then it would be better to change the government then to keep it in that state.

I've clearly left out a lot of what he said (I was listening to him for 4 hours straight) so if you have any specific questions on what he asked feel free to ask!

I only took one picture on my iphone of him. This is at the small reception after the event:


ETA: 1-Forgot to mention it but for the record this was all at Stanford University
2- If you want to read more about the event the International Herald Tribune had a brief article about it:http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/01/ ... rorism.php
and the stanford report (the official stanford news agency) had a longer article about the event: http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2 ... 12109.html

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

Fascinating sw. It's not often one has a chance to talk to someone in the cockpit of world events. The questions seemed pertinent too. Thanks for the report.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Thanks so much for sharing that, swiz! Really fascinating.

[Inanna]

Wow!! Incredible sw, thanks for sharing that!

Were there any questions about ISI's involvement in terrorist cells?

[River]

That sounds utterly fascinating.

No heads of state have come to any university I've attended. At least, not while I was enrolled. Some people have all the luck.

[superwizard]

Were there any questions about ISI's involvement in terrorist cells?

I believe someone asked him how much control he had over the ISI and the army and he stated that he had as much control over the ISI as India had over it's intelligence agency (forgot its name but I'm sure you know it). He also said that the attackers that attacked Mumbai must be punished and justice must be served but that those who attacked the train system in Pakistan who were (he alleges) Indian extremists must also be tried for their crimes.

He also repeatedly said that all these 'viscous rumors' on the army and the ISI were false and slanders by people who have a vested interest in this.

It was at times like that that it really showed that at the end of the day he still was a politician and not an academic.

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

Interesting, Superwizard.

I'll have to mention this to my sister-in-law and her family.

Her mother was back in Pakistan a while back, when some of the recent trouble occurred, and she was delayed getting back.

He argued that the root causes of terrorism were poverty, illiteracy and political alienation. He said that if these issues were not tackled then even if all the branches (the extremist organizations) and the leaves (the actual extremists) were removed they would still keep coming up. He especially emphasized that the need for a Palestinian Israeli solution and a Kashmir solution.

This is in in large agreement with what my sister-in-law's father has said on a number of occasions.

BrianIs AtYou

[WampusCat]

Great report, s'wiz. A wonderful opportunity, well used.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Reports like this are particularly valuable because they give us a more balanced perspective. People like Musharraf tend to get painted in a very one-dimensional way, and it is good to be reminded that there is more to him than the dictatorial despot that we mostly see. His comments about the root causes of terrorism are quite insightful.

[tinwë]

What an experience S'wiz! Thanks for the report.

He agreed that literacy and education in general were extremely important in combating extremism in the long term...[/url]

I assume everyone here has read Three Cups of Tea about mountaineer Greg Mortenson who has dedicated his life to building schools, primarily for girls, in the remote regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan? If you haven't, you should. It's good.

[sauronsfinger]

tinwë - yes, that book- Three Cups of Tea - shows how to do it and do it right. Excellent recommendation.

[Frelga]

Reports like this are particularly valuable because they give us a more balanced perspective. People like Musharraf tend to get painted in a very one-dimensional way, and it is good to be reminded that there is more to him than the dictatorial despot that we mostly see. His comments about the root causes of terrorism are quite insightful.

There is certainly a dose of self-interest in framing the answer in that way, especially when foreign aid is in play. Poverty, illiteracy, and political alienation are certainly great evils in this world and need to be combated, but their direct relationship to terrorism is by no means proven. For example, the 9/11 terrorists were from an educated, middle-class background, and the same seems true of other terrorists, particularly those who carry out suicide missions. For instance

Analyses of terrorist activities in the last two decades consistently reveal that individuals who support and commit terrorist acts are likely to be more highly educated and have higher incomes than others in their society.

Nonetheless, any improvement in the standard of living is for the best, as is improvement in secular education.

S'wiz, that was a very interesting first hand report, thank you for posting it.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Frelga, thanks for posting that very interesting article. I'm not surprised that evidence suggests that many of those who carry out terrorist attacks are more educated. As the article states:

Kreuger and Mileckova suggest that higher levels of education may improve a candidate's chance of being selected to carry out work as a "human bomb," since he is likely to be able to articulate his commitment more effectively than someone with less education, acting from desperation.

But (as the article seems to acknowledge), that does not negate the possibility that addressing root causes such poverty, illiteracy and political alienation will help reduce the incidence of terrorism. I am willing to bet that reducing the justifications used for terrorism will reduce the terrorism itself, even if a significant percentage of those carrying out the terrorist attacks are not those that are suffering the most because of those root causes (but feel a kinship with those who are).

[Frelga]

So as to avoid hijacking swiz's thread, let's just agree that reducing poverty and illiteracy are good things.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I think we can agree with that (and I'm pretty sure that swiz won't mind hosting the sentiment!).

[tinwë]

I assume both of you have read Three Cups of Tea about mountaineer Greg Mortenson who has dedicated his life to building schools, primarily for girls, in the remote regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan? If you haven't, you should. It's good.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

tinwë, you do realize that you posted virtually the same thing this morning, don't you?

[tinwë]

Funny how that happens, huh?

[Inanna]

Were there any questions about ISI's involvement in terrorist cells?

It was at times like that that it really showed that at the end of the day he still was a politician and not an academic.

Well, you have to give him some leeway there sw. And so do I have to. Once you've been the leader of a country, you simply can't turn around and start saying things that render your time, and the time of the current administration, difficult and moot.