Hobbit film pitfalls
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Voronwë the Faithful
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I guess I'm the permissive one this time, because I don't find it preposterous at all; at least, not any more so than any of the other stuff that permeates these works. I think the reason it's bothering people is because it's being played as a gag instead of being described in high epic language.
And then Bifur espied his foe and rushed toward him, and the sound of their meeting was as the clashing of the mountains that built Aülondorlë in the forgotten days. The struggle was mighty, but in the end Bifur threw down his enemy and slew him. Yet even as he fell in death, his enemy let fly his hatchet Zircônium the foe-smiter, and it entered Bifur's head and lodged there. Then Bifur laughed and said, "is this a wasp that has stung me?" (for Zircônium also meant wasp-sting in the ancient tongue of the children of Darîn), and went to seek out the physician. Yet Zircônium had a curse laid upon it, and by the skill of neither elves nor men could it be removed, and Bifur bore it there until the end of his days.
And then Bifur espied his foe and rushed toward him, and the sound of their meeting was as the clashing of the mountains that built Aülondorlë in the forgotten days. The struggle was mighty, but in the end Bifur threw down his enemy and slew him. Yet even as he fell in death, his enemy let fly his hatchet Zircônium the foe-smiter, and it entered Bifur's head and lodged there. Then Bifur laughed and said, "is this a wasp that has stung me?" (for Zircônium also meant wasp-sting in the ancient tongue of the children of Darîn), and went to seek out the physician. Yet Zircônium had a curse laid upon it, and by the skill of neither elves nor men could it be removed, and Bifur bore it there until the end of his days.
Last edited by Dave_LF on Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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I think you prove my point, actually. Because it clearly is meant to be a gag, not to be credible. The little paragraph that you wrote about it reads much more like Bored of the Rings (which I know many people like, but which I despise), than it does anything that Tolkien ever wrote.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
People are full of heuristic intuitions about how the world works; intuitions that Copernicus, Newton, Darwin, Einstein, and a host of others have proved wrong. Fantasy is an outlet for these worldworking instincts, just like sports are an outlet for our tribal and warmaking urges. In fantasy, the world actually behaves the way we are born thinking it does. Hence, there are no bacteria in Middle-Earth--bacteria are the stuff of that newcomer science. In Middle-Earth, infection is caused by curses, or by bad air. And it's perfectly plausible that a hardy creature like a dwarf could bear this sort of wound indefinitely. If, as seems likely enough, it is played for laughs I can see being bothered by that, but the thing itself doesn't seem at all out of place in a fantasy world.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Well, the one point that I agree with you about that we need to see how it is played out to really pass judgment. Still, I would be very, very surprised if they make much effort to make this seem like a credible element of the secondary world, rather than just a crass gag.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Not that it makes things any better, but thanks to Pipe Dream on TORn, we can now clearly see that his head ornament is an ax(e) with blade embedded into Bifur's forehead, causing the fissures radiating outwards, and the handle has been broken off... (click on image in link)
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Some of would suggest that its less ridiculous than Trolls turning to stone, talking purses, were-bears and serving animals with trays but hey!
It seems to me there was a lot of concern that The Hobbit wouldn't be light hearted enough, would lack whimsy, or would be LotR-Lite. How come Tolkien's whimsy and inconsistency is ok, but PJ's isn't? You can't have it both ways!
It seems to me there was a lot of concern that The Hobbit wouldn't be light hearted enough, would lack whimsy, or would be LotR-Lite. How come Tolkien's whimsy and inconsistency is ok, but PJ's isn't? You can't have it both ways!
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
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Voronwë the Faithful
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It's a matter of taste, as much as anything else. I like Tolkien's whimsy. I don't like Jackson's, when it involves things like axes embedded in skulls (or gratuitous bodily functions, or over the top skull avalanches).Alatar wrote:Some of would suggest that its less ridiculous than Trolls turning to stone, talking purses, were-bears and serving animals with trays but hey!
It seems to me there was a lot of concern that The Hobbit wouldn't be light hearted enough, would lack whimsy, or would be LotR-Lite. How come Tolkien's whimsy and inconsistency is ok, but PJ's isn't? You can't have it both ways!
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
I don't call someone walking around with a sawn-off axe embedded in their skull "whimsy..." To me it's crass visual gag, aimed at people with a schoolboy sense of humour. I don't mind slapstick visuals , such as perhaps Bifur getting a blow to the head during the film, and him acting concussed and befuddled for a while because of it, but this "healed accident?"... 
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I don't feel my own sense of humour to be either lacking, crass or of the schoolboy variety, and I have no issue with it.Elentári wrote:I don't call someone walking around with a sawn-off axe embedded in their skull "whimsy..." To me it's crass visual gag, aimed at people with a schoolboy sense of humour.
In general I find it offensive when people state that their own sense of humour or their own preferences are right, and the sense of humour of others is stupid, crass, lowest common denominator, "or schoolboy". All of which have already been stated here or elsewhere. As V states, its a matter of personal taste.
This was the reason I avoided the message boards in the run up to LotR. Too many people stating their own opinions as fact and everyone else's as wrong. I didn't expect it here.
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
Oh, sorry....I forgot the little acronym "IMO", didn't I?????
I thought it was obvious I was stating my opinion and feelings without needing to add that. Nowhere did I say that my opinion was right and everyone else's was wrong.
I also thought you were being rather devilish and actively trying to encourage debate so I obliged...
So, seriously, in what way does it work for you, Al? After the initial impact (no pun intended!) even if we get a serious story behind the concept, I wonder if it will become annoying to see it the whole way through the film?
I thought it was obvious I was stating my opinion and feelings without needing to add that. Nowhere did I say that my opinion was right and everyone else's was wrong.
I also thought you were being rather devilish and actively trying to encourage debate so I obliged...
So, seriously, in what way does it work for you, Al? After the initial impact (no pun intended!) even if we get a serious story behind the concept, I wonder if it will become annoying to see it the whole way through the film?
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
