I don't see that at all. I see it as putting responsibility solely in the hands of the person.It wants you to put responsibility for your cure in other hands
The Twelve Steps
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Angbasdil
- The man, the myth, the monkey.
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:37 am
- Location: Woodstock GA
A little more than a decade ago, I spent about six months regularly attending meetings of the Adult Children of Alcoholics. I'm not really a "twelve-stepper", but those few months I spent focusing on the first couple of steps, along with the realization that I was not the only one dealing with these issues, were exactly the kick-start I needed to begin dealing with some long-standing issues.
The steps are absolutely NOT religious; they endorse no dogma or doctrine. Rather, they are spiritual. Big difference. And they don't require a belief in God or any other deity. Just an acceptance of the fact that many things in this world (and yes, even in ourselves) are quite beyond our own control. As vison so rightly said, it's really more about humility.
I think one of the best things about them is that you can take whatever is useful for you and leave the rest. For me personally, I got what I needed from the program pretty quickly and moved on. If you have trouble with the "God" thing, just drop it and move on. The only real "delbreaker" is the issue of control. The important thing is not that God is in control - the important thing is that you are not.
vison,
You know your own mind pretty well. The only advice I can presume to give you is this - If feel indifference or mild distaste at anything in the steps, just skip over it. If you feel a strong negative reaction to anything, look at it more closely. Sometimes the things we fight the hardest are the things we need the most. Sometimes not. Just be open to the possibility.
Oh, and
The steps are absolutely NOT religious; they endorse no dogma or doctrine. Rather, they are spiritual. Big difference. And they don't require a belief in God or any other deity. Just an acceptance of the fact that many things in this world (and yes, even in ourselves) are quite beyond our own control. As vison so rightly said, it's really more about humility.
I think one of the best things about them is that you can take whatever is useful for you and leave the rest. For me personally, I got what I needed from the program pretty quickly and moved on. If you have trouble with the "God" thing, just drop it and move on. The only real "delbreaker" is the issue of control. The important thing is not that God is in control - the important thing is that you are not.
vison,
You know your own mind pretty well. The only advice I can presume to give you is this - If feel indifference or mild distaste at anything in the steps, just skip over it. If you feel a strong negative reaction to anything, look at it more closely. Sometimes the things we fight the hardest are the things we need the most. Sometimes not. Just be open to the possibility.
Oh, and
I'm the one who doesn't understand addiction. I admire what you've done, staying drug free for so long, but I just don't understand addiction itself at all. I'm sorry. I can't seem to wrap my mind around it. Comparing it to overeating seems incredibly stupid, now. I apologize for that.Sassafras wrote:And lest you think I don't really understand 'real' drug addiction, let me just say that I was a hard-core heroin addict for 22 years and I've got permanent scars on my arms to prove it.
Overeating can be self-destructive, Maria. You may not be there yourself, but there are people who kill themselves with food. I have been a weight-loser many times in my life! The trouble is, we DO have to eat. No one has to smoke or drink or use drugs, but man, we have to eat.
As for the addictions to drugs and alcohol, I am thankful every day that I am not and have not been tempted to that life.
As for the addictions to drugs and alcohol, I am thankful every day that I am not and have not been tempted to that life.
Dig deeper.
Well, I have been.
I have had enough of a flirtation with alcohol to... well, sober me. I have definitely used it as a Buffer From Life.
I have a bottle of wine in the refrigerator that I bought two weeks ago, or so, when we were discussing wines in the Parlour thread... and I have rather fearfully been avoiding it.
See, I know I have an addictive personality. I know that if I had ever tried illegal drugs, I would have liked them. I've never understood the idea of "Why didn't you even TRY marijuana? You might have liked it!" Ummmm... okay, I'll grant you that. I probably would have. In fact, I KNOW I would have. So then what?
I am respectful of the power of that bottle of wine because my world has recently and officially been rocked. I am very willing to seek a Buffer From Life.
And that bottle... and its brothers and sisters a short car trip away... would offer me that, I am absolutely sure. Alcohol is a drug I HAVE tried, and I DO like. I like it a lot. I like the taste of it, quite separate from the reality escape it provides. If I'm not in a vulnerable, buffer-seeking spot in my life, I enjoy my occasional glass of wine (or margaritas... JEEZ Eru makes the best margaritas) with no strings attached.
But right now? The Buffer might become The Answer. Easily. TOO easily. In a heartbeat. In a swallow.
I feel for your son, vison... I could have ended up there, too. I know I could have. I was lucky enough to scare myself silly before I tilted over the edge, and to live with a healthy respect of how easy it is to fall, even now.
The chasm yawns at many feet.
I have had enough of a flirtation with alcohol to... well, sober me. I have definitely used it as a Buffer From Life.
I have a bottle of wine in the refrigerator that I bought two weeks ago, or so, when we were discussing wines in the Parlour thread... and I have rather fearfully been avoiding it.
See, I know I have an addictive personality. I know that if I had ever tried illegal drugs, I would have liked them. I've never understood the idea of "Why didn't you even TRY marijuana? You might have liked it!" Ummmm... okay, I'll grant you that. I probably would have. In fact, I KNOW I would have. So then what?
I am respectful of the power of that bottle of wine because my world has recently and officially been rocked. I am very willing to seek a Buffer From Life.
And that bottle... and its brothers and sisters a short car trip away... would offer me that, I am absolutely sure. Alcohol is a drug I HAVE tried, and I DO like. I like it a lot. I like the taste of it, quite separate from the reality escape it provides. If I'm not in a vulnerable, buffer-seeking spot in my life, I enjoy my occasional glass of wine (or margaritas... JEEZ Eru makes the best margaritas) with no strings attached.
But right now? The Buffer might become The Answer. Easily. TOO easily. In a heartbeat. In a swallow.
I feel for your son, vison... I could have ended up there, too. I know I could have. I was lucky enough to scare myself silly before I tilted over the edge, and to live with a healthy respect of how easy it is to fall, even now.
The chasm yawns at many feet.
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
No kidding! Just google stories about the "Half Ton Man"... he came very close to dying from the weight of his own flesh crushing him.Vison wrote:You may not be there yourself, but there are people who kill themselves with food.
I've always had the same attitude. I told myself when I was a teenager, that if I ever tried drugs it would be after I'm 80 or 90 years old, just in case I get addicted.Anthy wrote:I know that if I had ever tried illegal drugs, I would have liked them. I've never understood the idea of "Why didn't you even TRY marijuana? You might have liked it!"
Nowadays, the idea holds no interest for me. I don't drink hardly at all anymore, because I don't like losing focus, if that makes any sense? I'll take a polite sip now and again, spend the next minute or so imagining that I'm Jessica in "Dune" and changing the poison in my veins into something harmless , and then go on with what I was doing. Inebriation just isn't interesting. I get weird enough without that!
so many things come to mind - the vision of the happy small boy - becoming something which threatens and frightens is so sad, I am sorry.
I cannot accept though that it's better that they die, or that the divorcee is widowed, it could be easier, if easy is what you want - Easy is usually selfish, cos my ease if someone else's effort.
I strongly believe where there is life.... I do hope your son comes home addiction is an illness, it can be cured.
I cannot accept though that it's better that they die, or that the divorcee is widowed, it could be easier, if easy is what you want - Easy is usually selfish, cos my ease if someone else's effort.
I strongly believe where there is life.... I do hope your son comes home addiction is an illness, it can be cured.
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narya
- chocolate bearer
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Vison, I just read this in a transportation engineering newsletter, of all places. It was talking about the dangers to roadway construction workers who come upon the wastes, left by the side of the road, of meth labs.
What is Meth?
Meth is an extremely dangerous and highly addictive stimulant drug that releases high levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine in its users. It is highly addictive and extremely hard to stop using. 98% of users become addicted after just one use. Meth use can cause psychotic behavior and brain damage, and chronic use can bring about violent behavior, anxiety, confusion, insomnia, auditory hallucinations, mood disturbances, delusions and paranoia.
Tossing the One Ring was easy in comparison to fighting this monster.
What is Meth?
Meth is an extremely dangerous and highly addictive stimulant drug that releases high levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine in its users. It is highly addictive and extremely hard to stop using. 98% of users become addicted after just one use. Meth use can cause psychotic behavior and brain damage, and chronic use can bring about violent behavior, anxiety, confusion, insomnia, auditory hallucinations, mood disturbances, delusions and paranoia.
Tossing the One Ring was easy in comparison to fighting this monster.