Hall of Fire Reviews - Post Them Here! [SPOILERS!]

[Nin]

I said good looking!

[kzer_za]

Yep, Bilbo's moment of pity was fantastic. When I said Riddles in the Dark was one of PJ's best scenes ever, I was including everything with Gollum.

[Alatar]

And where or where did the Goblin King come from when he busted through the bridge there at the end?

Who cares? I mean, honestly...who cares where he came from? It was cool to have him bust through the bridge, with his fat goblin self and all.

Actually, I watched for it on my second viewing. The Goblin king dies on the bridge, and the part the Dwarves are on falls into the chasm, leaving the Goblin king hanging precariously on the edge of a creaky bit of bridge that is directly above where they finish up. So yeah, the mechanics of it actually work.

ETA: Unlike Denethor Flambee!

[kzer_za]

He's referring to how the Goblin King bursts through the bridge before they all fall down.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

[Well, I didn't pre-parse anything about this film - I largely stayed out of the discussions - so I can safely say that I agree with Anthy on this one. The dwarves seemed inconsistent to me and some of them did not seem like dwarves at all, just short people. Balin and Bofur were most convincing for me, despite being overly cartoonish.

My point exactly (exactly that, much as liked Bofur's characterization, I though his look was probably the furthest from a Tolkienesque dwarf of any of them, including Kili).

I think Richard Armitage did a wonderful job portraying a character in a Peter Jackson movie, but I think his portrayal had little to do with The Hobbit, Thorin or Tolkien. I don't know how to put my finger on it except that I recall book Thorin being more haughty but less brooding.

I disagree with this, although my image of Thorin is strongly influenced by the Quest of Erebor, Appendix A, and the overall characterization of dwarves in 'The Silmarillion' (of which I consider Thorin to be the culmination, much as I consider Aragorn to the culmination of the Edain/Numenorians). Armitage's Thorin was very close to "my" Thorin.

[SirDennis]

Will Fili and Kili grow up to look like Gloin? It worries me, yes it does.

It's a good thing they die by the end of this thing... wait they do die right?


Another of your comments, Anthy, was about your oosband not knowing that Thorin was a dwarf. I can see that as being a huge problem, much worse than my sister thinking Kili was an elf or a hobbit (she doesn't know that neither typically grow/wear beards).

[SirDennis]

I have read these reviews and I appear to hold the singular distinction of being the only one here who actually fell asleep during the movie. Twice.

I fell asleep during ROTK the first time out. I woke just before the Rohirim charge at Pelanor field. (That got my attention!) Nothing is implied other than I was extremely tired that day.

[Stranger Wings]

And where or where did the Goblin King come from when he busted through the bridge there at the end?

Who cares? I mean, honestly...who cares where he came from? It was cool to have him bust through the bridge, with his fat goblin self and all.

The whole Goblin Town scene was great fun. And so what if there's a theme park ride in it? That will be fun, too.

I wasn't sure if I liked Radagast at first, but his line about the rabbits sealed it for me...

Obviously, I care. Though it's not that I care about the rationality of it, really. It's just that it was so painfully reminiscent of some video game "boss" encounter, that I just couldn't care about what was happening, and I lost all suspension of disbelief regarding the characters. For me, a secondary world, if punctured for even a few moments due to such overblown nonsense, it takes me out of the world completely. In the end, you though it "looked cool," while I thought it looked fake and cheesy. Why does my opinion of it bother you so much? Is it really that valuable?

Plus, as a lover of film, I can imagine literally endless ways in which a capture and escape in dark tunnels by goblins could be done more effectively (and even more "fun," if you like). I have a very over-active imagination and vision about film, and am constantly writing, directing and lighting scenes in my head. The "video game/theme park ride" option for Goblin Town seemed to be the least interesting choice for me, that's all. It was all so busy and confused and digital, with no real visual artistry behind it. IMO.

However, I quite liked the Great Goblin as a character, and disagree with those who though he was too silly. IMO, he brought personality and character to an otherwise bland sequence of endless jumping and falling pixels.

[Alatar]

What are these bizarre video games everyone else seems to have played??? I play a LOT of video games and nothing in the movies was even vaguely like one.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

It's just that it was so painfully reminiscent of some video game "boss" encounter, that I just couldn't care about what was happening, and I lost all suspension of disbelief regarding the characters.]

Well, since I think the last computer video game that I played was "Pong" (perhaps a slight exxageration), that wasn't a problem for me. At least on my first viewing, I didn't have nearly as negative reaction to it as I did to the crumbling stairs and spider orc scenes in Moria. Or for that matter some of the other action scenes in this film, particularly the stone giants, but also most of the Azog/Orc/Wargs battle scenes.

For me, a secondary world, if punctured for even a few moments due to such overblown nonsense, it takes me out of the world completely. In the end, you though it "looked cool," while I thought it looked fake and cheesy. Why does my opinion of it bother you so much? Is it really that valuable?

To me it is, as is everyone else's posting here!

Plus, as a lover of film, I can imagine literally endless ways in which a capture and escape in dark tunnels by goblins could be done more effectively (and even more "fun," if you like). I have a very over-active imagination and vision about film, and am constantly writing, directing and lighting scenes in my head. The "video game/theme park ride" option for Goblin Town seemed to be the least interesting choice for me, that's all. It was all so busy and confused and digital, with no real visual artistry behind it. IMO.

I think that it is a perfectly valid position. I might even come to agree with it on further viewings.

Or I might not.

However, I quite liked the Great Goblin as a character, and disagree with those who though he was too silly. IMO, he brought personality and character ...

Definitely agree with this. I even, to my great surprise, liked his look, even including his ridiculous height and dangling jowls.

And Humphries either lied about the throne, or it was cut out.

[Alatar]

It looks like it was cut out as the "design feature" exists in the Games Workshop Miniatures set:

http://figurfanatikern.blogspot.ie/2012 ... ments.html

[kzer_za]

Considering the bad jokes that made it back into the RotK EE, there's a chance we'll be seeing it yet!

But yeah, I liked the Goblin King too.

[anthriel]

In the Hobbit (book) is stated that Fili, Kili and Thorin are related. So it is quite logic to have some kind of resemblance. They just come from a rather good looking dwarven family (human equivalent would be the Fiennes brothers....).

If only they looked like dwarves. Kinda like the Fiennes looking like... well, sort-of-human, plastic, made for Hollywood and Teen Beat covers. Kinda like... Kardashians, really.

Besides that, to me, Fili was not h00t at all.

That's great! H00t, h00t!!

[yovargas]

What are these bizarre video games everyone else seems to have played??? I play a LOT of video games and nothing in the movies was even vaguely like one.

I would say the way the Goblin King pops out of the bridge as they're running does have a strong "and now, it's the boss fight!" vibe that video games actually often have.



I am sad I have lost a grousing partner in Shelob.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Don't worry, yov, SA will still be doing plenty of grousing! I guarantee it.

[Inanna]

I could jump in, Yov, except that I want to leave a chance to like it in the future. And I might. I'd HATED TTT the first time, and while it's definitely the one I least like in LOTR, I have still watched it and enjoyed bits of it umpteen times. I will likely go a similar route with The Hobbit. Maybe.

So, I'm trying not to build a position in my head which I fight against.

[Elentári]

So, I just saw it in HFR...

And can truly say I wish I hadn't bothered! Not that it was bad, necessarily, but definitely not to my taste as a medium for telling a story. The only time I think it worked for me was in Goblin Town where all the incredible detail was visible right into the distance, and it improved the CGI in the escape fight sequence for me. I also enjoyed the detail of the eagles' feathers, as others have mentioned. The best shot of all in 3D I felt was the butterfly coming right off the screen at you.

But the 70's BBC production/sitcom analogy is so true...to me it was like being on stage in the middle of the production with the actors. And I didn't like that. It is funny that we talk about a story "coming to life off the page" or "being sucked into a story" but the reality for me is that I prefer to see a story looking in from the outside, not view it from so close I could actually be standing a couple of feet from the actor on set. Even at 24 fps I just found 3D unnatural, period. Objects and people don't pop out* at you like that in real life. Our perception of 3D is far more subtle. Bizarrely, I didn't have such a problem with it in HP, and I enjoy 3D animated films such as "Legend of the Guardians" which was beautifully done. It may also be my age, but I find the fast paced camera work hard to digest these days (though I did ask my teenage sons and they said they coudn't always take every shot in, either!)

So I'll be sticking firmly to 2D, and eagerly anticipating the EE release - though not now the Great Goblin's throne!

* ETA: by this I mean the depth of field seems so artificial in a 3D film...

[anthriel]

Anthy, first of all, don't you dare go away; it is wonderful having you posting in this part of the board!

Oh, I am not going away. I'm just not going to debate Dear Di!! about Totally Gorgeous OMG H0tt dwarves vs. the regular recognizable-as-dwarves kind of dwarves anymore.

Taking your point to a somewhat different place, with regard to fan reaction to the "hott", beardless (in the case of Kili) or short-bearded dwarves, primarily Thorin and and Fili (as opposed to non-fan reaction like that of mr. anth and my mom), I would literally say that I went through the five stages of grief over the past year or so since the dwarf designs were revealed. Initially I couldn't believe that they really would do that. Then I was angry. Then I tried to rationalize. Then I was just plain depressed about it. But by the time the film came around, I had pretty much accepted it, so it was a non-issue for me.

Perhaps I should have tried that idea. Would have saved me from walking into something that feels like it had already been covered... sounds like it was!

Well, I didn't pre-parse anything about this film - I largely stayed out of the discussions - so I can safely say that I agree with Anthy on this one. The dwarves seemed inconsistent to me and some of them did not seem like dwarves at all, just short people. Balin and Bofur were most convincing for me, despite being overly cartoonish.

Ah, I agree! I really did like Balin; he seemed like a dwarf. And his reverence toward Thorin was well-acted. Is Bofur the one in the Ghengis Kahn hat? I really liked his characterization, too. Kind, and caring, and definitely a dwarf.

I think Richard Armitage did a wonderful job portraying a character in a Peter Jackson movie, but I think his portrayal had little to do with The Hobbit, Thorin or Tolkien. I don't know how to put my finger on it except that I recall book Thorin being more haughty but less brooding.

I agree with this very much. The fan-girl glower is beguiling, I must agree, but it is a bit overdone for the way I pictured Thorin. In my impression from reading the book, he was a proud dwarf, VERY haughty, and stubborn and prideful and selfish, as well. The movie made him seem quite regal, which, in fairness, may have been the way I was supposed to read him way back when. I don't remember having much respect for him in the book, but then I am also remembering the things that come after this movie's storyline ends. He was not too fair with the Lake Town people, if I remember clearly, and was not too wonderful to Bilbo, either. He wanted it all, and did not want to share.

But maybe Jackson will help me see a slightly different Thorin than I thought him to be. Jackson definitely helped me see a more worthwhile Boromir... I was not too impressed with him in the books, either. Sean Bean's Boromir tugged at my heart. Maybe Armitage's Thorin will, too.

[Primula Baggins]

You're being a really good sport about this, Anthy.

I think I'm going to see it again, but in 2D at a $4 matinee. Sometimes I don't absorb a film (or book) completely at first encounter and need another look to, well, digest it (obl. Goblin King ref.). Something tells me I might have an easier time without all the bells and whistles. Then maybe I'll really know what I think of the story and how it's told. There's a reason manuscripts are traditionally black type on white in a boring font. . . .

The parts I definitely love (Riddles, the dwarf song, Bilbo's departure, some other things) keep surfacing in my mind. The parts that wore me out (I so hear you, Inanna) or frustrated me have receded. I'm curious to see what happens when I see it again knowing what's coming.

[Inanna]

The thing is- the characters are wonderful. The bits that hold true to Tolkien are beautiful. The rest seems like filler garbage. Why a teleporting Galadriel, WHY?