The Desolation of Smaug anticipation thread [SPOILERS]

[Elentári]

On a happier note, another poster for DoS, available on Amazon.de

[Elentári]

This is interesting...Joe20 over on TORn has managed to get hold of the missing commentary track on the AUJ EE, and posts this snippet of the conversation between PJ & PB:

PJ: "...his staff is actually different and the reason why his staff is different - it's not the staff that he has in the Lord Of The Rings, that's actually something your going to have to look at the movies to find out. It's not till the third Hobbit movie-

Philippa: "...end of the second."

PJ: "..no, no, no. It's the beginning of the third that we get to see exactly why his staff changes between movies. Yep you wait and see Philippa"

Philippa: "Well I mean it begins at the end of the second"

PJ: "mmm yeah kind of... kind of"

Philippa: "Yup"

Could this be an indication of where the battle of DG will be placed? it sounds like it will kick off before the end of DoS...

[Dave_LF]

I read that whole exchange thinking it was Peter Jackson's staff that changed between films 2 and 3, and was left wondering what horrible thing he'd done to the Smaug scene that caused his entire staff to resign.

Anyway, my guess: Gandalf is captured toward the end of film 2 and we leave him locked in the dungeons. In film 3 the cavalry arrive and help him fight his way out through the skeleton crew that's left after the main army marches north (everyone keeps talking about "The Battle of Dol Guldur", but I haven't seen anything that points to more than a skirmish, if even that), and then it's a race to see if he can get to Erebor to warn Thorin before the orcs arrive.

[Passdagas the Brown]

I read that whole exchange thinking it was Peter Jackson's staff that changed between films 2 and 3, and was left wondering what horrible thing he'd done to the Smaug scene that caused his entire staff to resign.

Anyway, my guess: Gandalf is captured toward the end of film 2 and we leave him locked in the dungeons. In film 3 the cavalry arrive and help him fight his way out through the skeleton crew that's left after the main army marches north (everyone keeps talking about "The Battle of Dol Guldur", but I haven't seen anything that points to more than a skirmish, if even that), and then it's a race to see if he can get to Erebor to warn Thorin before the orcs arrive.

And what about the staff? Is it almost certain that Radagast will die, and Gandalf will acquire his?

[Dave_LF]

Die or "resign", casting his staff aside in the process. But even though that would be (more) canon, he hasn't really done anything thus far that would suggest he's close to giving up.

[Passdagas the Brown]

In the AUJ EE, Boyens (and PJ, IIRC), suggest that Radagast may eventually "forget that he's a wizard" and slowly become an obscure nature spirit, concerned only with the ecology of his surroundings. To me, this hints at the fact that he won't die.

Honestly, however, though it wouldn't be canon, I am hoping that he does meet an untimely end at the hands of Sauron or his minions. Would perhaps inject a sense that people can indeed die in the CGI world of the Hobbit.

[Elentári]

As probably anticipated, the December issue of EMPIRE has become somewhat of an annual Hobbit special! December 2013 boasts a choice of four covers: Thorin Oakenshield in Mirkwood, Gandalf the Grey in the dark domain of Dol Guldur and Bilbo, clutching Sting, as he treads through Smaug's lair in Erebor. Last but not least is Luke Evans' Bard the Bowman, defending Lake-Town from fiery menace.

...plus a fifth special subscribers' cover, "unites the four into one formidable quartet - quintet, if you include the eagle - against a backdrop of the Lonely Mountain."



Meanwhile, for those not lucky enough to live in the UK, Comicbookmovie.com is previewing 18 new images from the pages of the EMPIRE Hobbit edition!

[Elentári]

This is interesting...Joe20 over on TORn has managed to get hold of the missing commentary track on the AUJ EE, and posts this snippet of the conversation between PJ & PB:

PJ: "...his staff is actually different and the reason why his staff is different - it's not the staff that he has in the Lord Of The Rings, that's actually something your going to have to look at the movies to find out. It's not till the third Hobbit movie-

Philippa: "...end of the second."

PJ: "..no, no, no. It's the beginning of the third that we get to see exactly why his staff changes between movies. Yep you wait and see Philippa"

Philippa: "Well I mean it begins at the end of the second"

PJ: "mmm yeah kind of... kind of"

Philippa: "Yup"

Could this be an indication of where the battle of DG will be placed? it sounds like it will kick off before the end of DoS...

Further info from Joe20, summarizing points of interest and potential spoilers for DoS/TABA...including confirmation that they have indeed changed how Gandalf gets the key & map from the book version...

The gems shown to Thranduil will feature more in the 2nd and 3rd films.

We will find out why Gandalf has a different staff in FOTR at the end of the second/start of the third Hobbit film. Indicating Dol Guldur's placement in the story.

The claw Frodo picks up in Bag End is supposed to be one of Smaug's claws. Though it was shot before they knew how big Smaug would be. PJ suspects it will look a little small compared to Smaug's actual claws.

The Sackville-Baggins' (Lobelia and Otho will feature later on in the trilogy. (Obviously the auction scene)

PJ and Co tried hard to explain the reasons why the Dwarves need a burglar in the Desolation Of Smaug.

Battle Of Moria flashback was originally going to happen in Beorn's house.

As the filming went on PJ started using less prosthetic orcs and more CG orcs. And he is happy about it. He thinks the orcs coming in the next two films will be very scary and formidable when compared to those in the original trilogy.

Spiders that attacked Radagast same as those in DOS.

How Gandalf gets the map and the key is changed from the book.

As the films go on they get darker. Very little comedy by the third.

The dagger found by Radagast is the same one that stabs Frodo on Weathertop and it will come in to play a lot more. It will "return to the darker powers later on in the trilogy"

Philippa mentions the Battle Of Dol Guldur by name. So it certainly will happen...

Something about the "who did you tell about your quest" line plays into the beginning of film 2. Also Personal and geopolitical reasoning for Azog seeking Thorin. (I think thats what they were getting at. Difficult to understand exactly what is in reference to what.)

The reason Kili is the only archer in the group is because he has a "certain affinity with another archer" (hmmm I wonder who.... Wink)

We will see Saruman again in the Hobbit movies.

Thrain's ring will come into play later on in the Desolation Of Smaug.

Galadriel will fulfil her promise to Gandalf that "if ever he should need her help. She will come".

The Thrush will return.

[sauronsfinger]

lots of Christmas goodies to look forward to.

[sinister71]

How Gandalf gets the map and the key is changed from the book.

Surprise!!! Surprise!!! Surprise!!!

[kzer_za]

I've mostly stayed quiet as the news has come out, but almost nothing I've heard makes me excited for this movie. More Azog, more CG orcs, romance with invented characters, an invented morgul blade story...just too much. I'm not a purist, I even like the infamous Nazgûl-at-Osgiliath, but it sounds like he's just going wild now. At least we still have Martin Freeman and other good actors.

I can no longer deny the parallels with George Lucas - too much CG, too much unnecessary backstory and connections, too many bad ideas, even contrived romances! Though PJ is still a better director and has solid source material even if he is taking too many liberties with it.

[Passdagas the Brown]

I've mostly stayed quiet as the news has come out, but almost nothing I've heard makes me excited for this movie. More Azog, more CG orcs, romance with invented characters, an invented morgul blade story...just too much. I'm not a purist, I even like the infamous Nazgûl-at-Osgiliath, but it sounds like he's just going wild now. At least we still have Martin Freeman and other good actors.

I can no longer deny the parallels with George Lucas - too much CG, too much unnecessary backstory and connections, too many bad ideas, even contrived romances! Though PJ is still a better director and has solid source material even if he is taking too many liberties with it.

Some people say it's hyperbolic to compare the PJ "Hobbit" phenomenon to the Lucas one, but the AUJ EE special features have completely convinced me otherwise.

PJ continuously makes two points which to me are at the core of what's wrong with AUJ:

1. He delights in the freedom to put the camera "anywhere he wants," which is created both by the advanced camera rigs, and the greater prevalence of CG. His scrapping of miniatures and bigatures is communicated with zero regrets.

2. He is giddily in love with his ability to use CG to fix every perceived problem.

These two things together are what imbue the film with the sense of falseness that was far more pronounced than in LOTR (though I still maintain that Weathertop is the worst scene in all four films).

The camera swoops and dives and careens into every CGI crevice, and CGI creatures (including multiple CGI main characters) do the same thing, and survive without so much as a CGI scratch.

I wish the Hobbit were being made in the 90s, to be honest. Or at least by someone who knows how to handle CGI with restraint.

Cuaron, perhaps.

[Elentári]

I've mostly stayed quiet as the news has come out, but almost nothing I've heard makes me excited for this movie. Sad More Azog, more CG orcs, romance with invented characters, an invented morgul blade story...just too much. I'm not a purist, I even like the infamous Nazgûl-at-Osgiliath, but it sounds like he's just going wild now. At least we still have Martin Freeman and other good actors.

I can no longer deny the parallels with George Lucas - too much CG, too much unnecessary backstory and connections, too many bad ideas, even contrived romances! Though PJ is still a better director and has solid source material even if he is taking too many liberties with it.

Exactly my reaction... as I read that list of "spoilers" my heart sank even further. As I said in my post on the previous page, the scriptwriters can no longer convince me they have any reverence for the source material, despite the constant dressing up of their changes as "in the spirit" of Tolkien. Fortunately, I can still appreciate the production design and behind-the-scenes craftsmanship, as well as the actors' performances...

[Elentári]

Snippet of article on voicing Smaug from EMPIRE magazine (I'm assuming this is indeed legit....)

http://my-rise-of-the-fallen-psychopath ... bbit-smaug

Good to see at least one iconic line should be in!

[kzer_za]

I am still looking forward to Smaug at least.

PJ continuously makes two points which to me are at the core of what's wrong with AUJ:

1. He delights in the freedom to put the camera "anywhere he wants," which is created both by the advanced camera rigs, and the greater prevalence of CG. His scrapping of miniatures and bigatures is communicated with zero regrets.

2. He is giddily in love with his ability to use CG to fix every perceived problem.

LotR was really pretty restrained with CG. PJ still used physical special effects, old-fashioned scale tricks like forced perspective and standing on a box, miniatures, lots of location shooting, etc.

Its budget, while large, wasn't even THAT big compared to a lot of blockbusters (the first Spiderman movie had a much bigger budget than all three combined, for example). Giving PJ near-unlimited resources seems to have exacerbated all his worst excesses.

[Elentári]

LotR was really pretty restrained with CG. PJ still used physical special effects, old-fashioned scale tricks like forced perspective and standing on a box, miniatures, lots of location shooting, etc.

Yeah, and we have the great god 3D to blame for the absence of those things this time round.

[Alatar]

I don't want to be awkward here, but I feel this has turned into a PJ bashing thread, or even forum. While I can understand that people are disappointed with how some stuff turned out, or looks like it may turn out, I really am getting bummed out by all the negativity. Could we at least keep one thread for actual "anticipation" rather than griping?

I like to read some spoilers. I like the build up and anticipation. However, the constant refrain of "OMG PJ Sucks" every time anything of any type is announced just gets grating and wearing. Its the reason I stopped posting on TORC when LotR was being made. I don't want to stop coming here. Can't people make some attempt to be constructive without spamming every single thread with "See I told you he sucked"?

[sauronsfinger]

I don't want to be awkward here, but I feel this has turned into a PJ bashing thread, or even forum. While I can understand that people are disappointed with how some stuff turned out, or looks like it may turn out, I really am getting bummed out by all the negativity. Could we at least keep one thread for actual "anticipation" rather than griping?

I like to read some spoilers. I like the build up and anticipation. However, the constant refrain of "OMG PJ Sucks" every time anything of any type is announced just gets grating and wearing. Its the reason I stopped posting on TORC when LotR was being made. I don't want to stop coming here. Can't people make some attempt to be constructive without spamming every single thread with "See I told you he sucked"?

Very well said.

[axordil]

My interest in the movie threads here has been near zero for some time. Relentless negativity is worse than relentless fanboy chatter--at least the latter has some energy and excitement to it, however ill-founded.

[Dave_LF]

I am really, really looking forward to the new soundtrack, samples of which should start trickling out any time now.

I will thoroughly enjoy the buildup to the film and the experience of getting to see it for the first time too, even though that will be tempered by the knowledge that this is only going to happen one more time.