The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

For discussion of the upcoming films based on The Hobbit and related material, as well as previous films based on Tolkien's work
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Smaug's voice wrote:I didn't say he didn't.
No, but you implied that he didn't by saying "How would one even know if it'll work onscreen or not without trying it?" That statement, at least to my mind, certainly implies that the filmmakers did not try the line to see if it works. Am I missing something?

PtB, I don't really disagree with you, except for the fact that I have a lower opinion of general audiences than you do, and would not expect that level of sophistication in films aiming for a high as possible box office. Under these circumstances, I will take a lower common denominator and trust these particularly actors (in this case Armitage and Freeman) to pull it off.

None of you naysayers are going to dampen my enthusiastic expectation for this scene.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Game of Thrones averaged about 7.4 million viewers per episode during season 4, and it's quite a complex story (with very little attempt to dumb things down). As such, I think my faith in the intelligence of general audiences is justified (as is my faith in the certainty that you will continue to hate my comparisons of Game of Thrones and The Hobbit)! :)
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I saw an episode of Game of Thrones the other day, and I thought it was juvenile nonsense.
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Post by axordil »

But apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? ;)
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Inanna
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Post by Inanna »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:I saw an episode of Game of Thrones the other day, and I thought it was juvenile nonsense.
I read Book 1 and dumped the series. Well, hello V. :D
We may not agree on Pratchett, but apparently we agree on GoT.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

We agree on more than we disagree on. :) :hug:
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Post by Smaug's voice »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Smaug's voice wrote:I didn't say he didn't.
No, but you implied that he didn't by saying "How would one even know if it'll work onscreen or not without trying it?" That statement, at least to my mind, certainly implies that the filmmakers did not try the line to see if it works. Am I missing something?
That line was actually directed at you V, not PJ . You said the lines were perfect for reading, not perfect for presenting on-screen. How would you know if it will work out onscreen or not without seeing such an attempt?

None of you naysayers are going to dampen my enthusiastic expectation for this scene.
Well, I know I am going to like the third film anyway. But coincidentally me and PtB follow the same strategy to lower our spirits in the empty months. :D
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

What I said, exactly, was "Not perfect rhythm for a film, or so Jackson has deemed." I didn't say that I deemed it to not work on screen, I said that Jackson did.
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Post by Passdagas the Brown »

V-man,

GRRM's books can indeed be juvenile nonsense compared to Tolkien. They are essentially pulp fiction, and they delight in the shock value of subverting "tropes." Enjoyable, but ultimately throwaway. Though upon reflection, I do think they present an interesting "reverse LOTR" - a mundane and petty world wherein faery is slowly returning from the periphery, rather than departing for the west. But still, they don't even come close to the quality of Tolkien, IMO.

But the show, while occasionally veering into trashland, is certainly not juvenile nonsense (and compared to Jackson, the show writers are practically poets). The characterizations, in particular, are incredibly nuanced (though you wouldn't know if you only watched one episode). Your extreme and hyperbolic dismissal, after watching only one episode, also smacks of you deliberately trying to raise my hackles. Trolling, in other words. :)

Did you watch the first episode of the first season, or just stumble upon a later episode out of context? I think that's an important thing to clarify...
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

A later episode, out of context. But I don't think it would be remotely to my taste, even if I watched it from the beginning.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Image
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Post by Frelga »

That! That is my biggest beef with PJ. With Martin's Bilbo, and Armitage's Thorin, he could have made a Tolkenian masterpiece. It could be moving and thoughtful and hilarious, and still include barrel rides and orc chases. But PJ defenestrated all artistic restraint along with any respect for the intelligence of his viewers, and what's left is an amusement ride with rare glimpses of what might have been.
:rage:
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

No more so than LOTR, and in many ways less so.
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Frelga
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Post by Frelga »

I disagree. The higher percentage of Tolkien vs. "original" material in LOTR kept it from slipping over into absurdity. AUJ was all right, but DoS was too silly to be taken seriously and BOFA sounds like even more of the same.

But dammmm, Martin is perfect in the role.
"Aargragaah. It mean lit’rally der time when you see dem little pebbles and you jus’ know dere’s gonna be a great big landslide on toppa you and it already too late to run. Dat moment, dat’s aagragaah.”
Terry Pratchett, Jingo
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Post by Dave_LF »

Frelga wrote:That!
What that? Not the picture, surely?
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Post by Passdagas the Brown »

The Hobbit films could have been masterpieces if PJ had decided to laser focus on Bilbo's POV (ala Spielberg sticking to the children's POV in ET). Especially with such an enjoyable actor as Freeman.

Ah well. With my expectations checked, I was at least able to enjoy DOS for what it was: PJ, pure and unfiltered.
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Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:A later episode, out of context. But I don't think it would be remotely to my taste, even if I watched it from the beginning.
I had the same bias, and refused to watch the show until the end of season 2 came around.

I went back to season 1, had immediate quibbles, but stuck with it. And now I'm very glad I did. Some excellent character sketches in the show. But yeah, you have to learn to ignore some of the so-called "sexposition."

You should give it another try. Just as I gave Jackson a chance with DoS! :)
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Post by Frelga »

Dave_LF wrote:
Frelga wrote:That!
What that? Not the picture, surely?
Yes. The picture. Because it's perfect. It hints at the movie that could have been.
"Aargragaah. It mean lit’rally der time when you see dem little pebbles and you jus’ know dere’s gonna be a great big landslide on toppa you and it already too late to run. Dat moment, dat’s aagragaah.”
Terry Pratchett, Jingo
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Inanna
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Post by Inanna »

Frelga wrote:
Dave_LF wrote:
Frelga wrote:That!
What that? Not the picture, surely?
Yes. The picture. Because it's perfect. It hints at the movie that could have been.
True. I haven't even bothered to see DoS, I was so put off by AUJ. And I looooove the LOTR movies. Something went seriously wrong here.

V :D :hug:
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Frelga wrote:
Dave_LF wrote:
Frelga wrote:That!
What that? Not the picture, surely?
Yes. The picture. Because it's perfect. It hints at the movie that could have been.
No, it confirms the movie that is.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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