War between Hamas and Israel
- Dave_LF
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Re: War between Hamas and Israel
It must have taken a ton of time and preparation to set that up, and they only get to pull the trigger on it once. Was it really worth it?
Hez will be afraid to use phones for a while, and maybe that will be helpful if there's another phase queued up.
Hez will be afraid to use phones for a while, and maybe that will be helpful if there's another phase queued up.
Re: War between Hamas and Israel
How would I know? Mossad would probably imply that they did even if they didn't.Voronwë the Faithful wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:19 pm Do you seriously doubt that the Mossad was responsible for this?
Equally, Hezbollah would say that a child was killed even if one wasn't.
I do seriously doubt that it went the way Hezbollah is spinning it. They initially said two fighters were killed, which is why I wondered if there was something else on them that exploded.
Edit, Reuters from July
How Hezbollah used pagers and couriers to counter Israel's high tech surveillance
The title was as linked when I went to the page, but I've seen a screenshot that removed the reference to pagers
"What a place! What a situation! What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: War between Hamas and Israel
I agree with this assessment.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: War between Hamas and Israel
I'm not sure how reliable NEXTA is, but I haven't seen them caught out yet.
Haven't tried to look for WSJ article, but it seems more likely that someone sabotaged a shipment of pagers than that Mossad somehow made random devices explode.More than 3,000 Hezbollah terrorists have been wounded in explosions of communication devices
Dozens have been killed and another 500 are dying, Lebanese media reported.
The devices that exploded were from a new shipment that Hezbollah received in recent days, according to The Wall Street Journal.
"What a place! What a situation! What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
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Re: War between Hamas and Israel
That someone being Mossad.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: War between Hamas and Israel
If it is, then it's their most successful operating since Stuxnet.
"What a place! What a situation! What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
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Re: War between Hamas and Israel
One observer notes that this operation has implications for, e.g., U.S. decisions about what Chinese equipment to allow into the country.
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Re: War between Hamas and Israel
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: War between Hamas and Israel
I heard on NPR that an unnamed US official confirmed that Israel is responsible for the pager explosions.
My husband got this joke off a friend of his (warning: very dark humor): Why did Hezbollah to buy those pagers? They were promised 72 iPhones later.
In all seriousness, if this were a work of fiction I'd roll my eyes. Since it's reality, I can only gawk and flinch. Clearly this pager manufacturer has a security problem if their product could be so compromised. I can only imagine what our security trainings are going to look like in years to come. Stuxnet is a case study in why you shouldn't just trust a random USB key. This...holy cats.
ETA: x-posted with Voronwë.
My husband got this joke off a friend of his (warning: very dark humor): Why did Hezbollah to buy those pagers? They were promised 72 iPhones later.
In all seriousness, if this were a work of fiction I'd roll my eyes. Since it's reality, I can only gawk and flinch. Clearly this pager manufacturer has a security problem if their product could be so compromised. I can only imagine what our security trainings are going to look like in years to come. Stuxnet is a case study in why you shouldn't just trust a random USB key. This...holy cats.
ETA: x-posted with Voronwë.
When you can do nothing what can you do?
Re: War between Hamas and Israel
In all seriousness, looking at what Israel is capable of, and what Ukraine is doing with drones, and hacker attacks, and robot dogs with flamethrowers, we need to drastically reconsider our defense strategy. We need to be prepared for both old-fashioned battlefield, and high tech warfare, because we can't assume that our enemies won't learn things that our allies already do.
PS I keep meaning to start a thread about how we already are at war with Russia, but it's depressing to think about.
PS I keep meaning to start a thread about how we already are at war with Russia, but it's depressing to think about.
"What a place! What a situation! What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
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Re: War between Hamas and Israel
It does seem significant (as the cartoon you shared noted) that Iran's ambassador to Lebanon -- who lost one eye and was severely damaged in the other by this attack -- was in possession of a pager purchased by Hezbollah, which is a terrorist organization.
This is rather as if a prominent Republican had a pager purchased by, say, the KKK or the Proud Boys.
- Dave_LF
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Re: War between Hamas and Israel
I was thinking more along the lines of, where might Russian explosives be hidden, just waiting for some FSB agent to dial them up in early November?N.E. Brigand wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 3:01 am One observer notes that this operation has implications for, e.g., U.S. decisions about what Chinese equipment to allow into the country.
But that's a paranoid thought. Making one remotely-detonated exploding pager? That's very possible. Making hundreds or thousands, and then getting them into the willing hands of hundreds of targets, all without anyone catching on? I would have said it couldn't be done. It probably couldn't be, again.
Also, why does Hezbollah use pagers? (I can probably guess, but it's still surprising)
- Dave_LF
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Re: War between Hamas and Israel
Wikipedia says that a New York Times article I can't read without subscribing says that Israel intercepted a shipment of pagers meant for Hezbollah and rigged them without anyone noticing. I suppose that's the way you'd have to do it (lucky they buy in bulk, I guess), but still about a million ways it could have failed.
Possible reasons given for detonating now include: to instill paranoia, in preparation for an offensive, and because there was likely only a narrow time window before someone noticed.
Possible reasons given for detonating now include: to instill paranoia, in preparation for an offensive, and because there was likely only a narrow time window before someone noticed.
Re: War between Hamas and Israel
They stopped using cell phones at some point to avoid Israeli surveillance.
"What a place! What a situation! What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
- RoseMorninStar
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Re: War between Hamas and Israel
They are hard to track. They can last 85 days on a charge. They do not rely on cellular service but on radio waves. They are waterproof. Radio waves penetrate steel and concrete, where cell coverage or Wi-Fi may not.
My heart is forever in the Shire.
Re: War between Hamas and Israel
AP reports
Theres some opacity around this company, but I don't know if that's anything unusual.The AR-924 pagers used in Tuesday’s attack were manufactured by BAC Consulting KFT, which is based in the Hungarian capital of Budapest, according to a statement released by Gold Apollo, a Taiwanese firm that authorized the use of its brand on the pagers.
"What a place! What a situation! What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
Re: War between Hamas and Israel
Oh I'm pretty sure every logistics director, manager and lead everywhere is currently soiling their pants and re-evaluating their security measures. It doesn't matter that it was Mossad on a mission (though I'm not sure who else would have the chutzpah). Product tampering on this scale is the sum of all fears for anyone who manufactures, distributes, and ships goods. I wonder where the breakdown they exploited was. It was probably something so obvious everyone overlooks it. Kinda like how they got Stuxnet into the Iranian nuclear facility by dropping a USB key near a door...
When you can do nothing what can you do?
- Dave_LF
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Re: War between Hamas and Israel
That's kinda what I meant; the vulnerability will presumably be found and patched now, making a repeat difficult. That's also why I was wondering earlier whether they really got enough benefit out of this for it to be worth spending their single shot... Probably they just saw a rare opportunity and it was now or never.
(apologies for the mixed metaphors)
(apologies for the mixed metaphors)
Re: War between Hamas and Israel
Well, we'll see.
They kind of caused a public health crisis in Lebanon. And if they were as close to 100% certain as they could possibly get that these pagers were only going to go to Hezbollah members, they've marked thousands of them now. Including the Iranian ambassador. Which was interesting.
They kind of caused a public health crisis in Lebanon. And if they were as close to 100% certain as they could possibly get that these pagers were only going to go to Hezbollah members, they've marked thousands of them now. Including the Iranian ambassador. Which was interesting.
When you can do nothing what can you do?
Re: War between Hamas and Israel
I don't think there's a generic vulnerability. I think they somehow got into the company (or even started one) that was making pagers for Hezbollah and modified a specific shipment(s) of them with a bit of extra explosive. Lithium batteries can catch fire, but as far as I know, they don't blow off your limbs.
Jerusalem post:
Jerusalem post:
They had a day to check and didn't."19 Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) members were killed after their pagers had exploded in Deir ez-Zur in eastern Syria, Saudi news source Al-Hadath reported Wednesday afternoon. An additional 150 IRCG members were also wounded in the explosions"
"What a place! What a situation! What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal