"Children of Húrin" has been published...

[Primula Baggins]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear, Tom. "A map drawn by Christopher Tolkien of Beleriand" sounded to me like "a map drawn by CT, who lives in Beleriand." When in fact it is a map of Beleriand that CT drew. It's a result of putting one's sentences together in the wrong way. I just thought it was funny.

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear, Tom. "A map drawn by Christopher Tolkien of Beleriand" sounded to me like "a map drawn by CT, who lives in Beleriand." When in fact it is a map of Beleriand that CT drew. It's a result of putting one's sentences together in the wrong way. I just thought it was funny.

Oh, I see. You were commenting on his grammar. I guess I knew what he meant so I didn't pause to examine his sentence structure. (We all know that Beleriand is under the sea. There's no way CT is old enough to have been born there! ) Considering you do that for a living it's not surprising that you would, however.

[Primula Baggins]

CT didn't write that sentence, actually—look back at the article, Tom. Some reporter did, and I suspect it's mostly pulled straight from a press release a publicist wrote.

And, yes, I do notice that kind of thing because it's my job.

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

CT didn't write that sentence, actually—look back at the article, Tom. Some reporter did, and I suspect it's mostly pulled straight from a press release a publicist wrote.

Oh, I wasn't confused about that part. (Probably the only thing I wasn't confused about. )

[Primula Baggins]

You implied that I was attacking CT somehow or making fun of his grammar. I wanted to make clear that I was not doing that. <shrug>

Oh well. I haven't had my coffee yet!

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

You implied that I was attacking CT somehow or making fun of his grammar. I wanted to make clear that I was not doing that. <shrug>

No, I thought you were implying that CT should not include a map of his creation in a book with stories written (more-or-less) by his father, and that by doing so he was, you know, horning in on the old man's creation. Hence my comment about the senior Tolkien referring to the junior Tolkien's map while writing LOTR.

I haven't had a cup o' joe, yet, either. I did have some carrot juice, some oatmeal, and a piece of delicious yummy dark bread with peanut butter and orange marmalade on it. I think some java would be good right about now though...

*makes a beeline towards the coffee machine*

[Alatar]

From an interview with Adam Tolkien, assistant to Christopher:

Alejandro Serrano: First of all, we want to know if there will be new material in Children of Húrin, or the text that will be published is essentially the same that appears in other books. This is something that many of we ask ourselves.


Adam Tolkien: This is a more difficult question than it seems: As you know, versions and pieces of the story of Húrin and his descendants have been published in various works (Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, Lost Tales, Lays of Beleriand, etc). The text of "The Children of Húrin" is in part compiled from these extant texts, and particularly that which appears in Unfinished Tales.

But it is a new reworking of the complete story. Many parts of the text will be - if not identical - recognizable to the knowledgeable reader, but there are also pieces that have never appeared before.

Also the format of the text, as a standalone and complete text with no editorial commentary to interrupt the tale should in itself and in my opinion considerably tranform the reading experience.

Christopher Tolkien believes there may be many readers who have found the Silmarillion too difficult and distanced in style to be attracted to the story, and who have not wished to make their way through the painstaking editorial content that makes for the main interest of the History of Middle Earth.

We hope that these readers will be sufficiently attracted to "The Children of Húrin", and will discover in this way the "great tale" that was so important to JRR Tolkien and then the whole fascinating mythology that lies behind "The Lord of The Rings".

So in conclusion : Many parts of the text are essentially the same as those that appear in other works (and particularly "Unfinished Tales"), other parts will be new except for those readers who have read in detail the History of Middle Earth.

The text as a whole can be said to be "new" as it is a recomposition of published texts and other "pieces" that weren't published previously. A completed puzzle, in a sense.


Alejandro Serrano: We also want to know if the text of Children of Húrin is a
compilation of the works of J.R.R. Tolkien or it is completed by phrases of Christopher integrated to the book (as The Silmarillion).


Adam Tolkien: The reply above should help answer this question. But the fact is that the text of "The Children of Húrin" is entirely in the author's (So J.R.R. Tolkien) words - apart from very minor reworkings of a grammatical and stylistic nature.

Christopher's work has been to produce a polished text that is a faithful rendition of his father's writings - using many sources spaced out over decades.

[yovargas]

When he puts it that way...I never had any interest in reading the Histories as it seemed more scholarly work then artwork. Reconfigured like this, I'll likely be very interested in it.

[Primula Baggins]

I will, too, even though CT probably took out all the "And lo!"s.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

So in conclusion : Many parts of the text are essentially the same as those that appear in other works (and particularly "Unfinished Tales"), other parts will be new except for those readers who have read in detail the History of Middle Earth.

Well, that pretty much answers my question. Still looking forward to it, though.

[yovargas]

You wouldn't happen to be one of those readers, would ja?

[axordil]

Still, the manner in which the words are put together makes a huge difference, as your own work shows, V-man. You and a relative handful may be able to follow which bit came from where as you read, but even dropping a conjunction here and there can make a big difference.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I agree absolutely. I definitely support this project precisely because I think it is important to make this work accessible to the general public as a piece of artwork (as Yov so accurately put it) rather then as part of a scholarly endeavor. I definitely think there is the potential for it to connect with people on a level that the Silmarillion never did, because that work definitely has the feel of the compilation that it is. One thing that I am curious/concerned about is how the work will be framed. In order for people who are not intimately familiar with the world of the Silmarillion to connect with the story, there will need to be some kind of context that it is put in. Otherwise, the whole point of Morgoth's cursing Húrin's family will be completely lost on people.

There were two major sections of the Narn that were left out of the version included in Unfinished Tales (other then the part of the story that was told only in the Silmarillion itself). One was an extended description of Húrin and Huor's sojourn in Gondolin. I'm not sure how much useful backstory that would provide, unless some other material is included to put it in context. But the other major section that was left out was a description of the Nirnaeth itself (the only portion of this that was included in the UT Narn was the actual discussion between Húrin and Morgoth after Húrin's capture). This will certainly be included. But this version of the story differs significantly from how the story is told in the Silmarillion (primarly in that Maedhros' forces never actually meet up with Fingon's and actually are defeated in a completely separate battle). It will be interesting to see if CT continues to aim for consistency in the published texts or will include the story as written in the Narn text itself.

[axordil]

The Nirneath I think essential as well, to explain the curse. The stay of the Hu- people in Gondolin, much less so.

I would be mildly surprised if CT directly contradicted the text describing the NA in the Sil.

[TORN]

From a Boston Globe article (via another website -- for reasons unknown to me, "Húrin" is written as "Hzrin" throughout the article):

As for the movie potential of "The Children of Hzrin," Disney, Warner Bros. and New Line Cinema have contacted the Tolkien estate, but the estate put them off until after publication.

See http://www.pe.com/entertainment/stories ... cc4b7.html

[Primula Baggins]

Interesting, TORN. Thanks! ( Good to see you!)

I wonder what their plans actually are with regard to movie rights—I would have expected Christopher Tolkien to rule the whole idea out up front.

[axordil]

TORN--

Probably they had a ú that the software spit up a hairball on.

Prim--

That is very odd, given CJRT's hostility to the medium in the past. Perhaps he wants a deal with some creative control.

And now the heresy: I don't think PJ would be my first choice for the director, but I think WETA would be perfect for the production, and that he would be a fine producer.

[Frelga]

PJ! Disney!

Disney? I wonder if they read the story. What are the chances of them producing a tale so poignant and tragically beautiful? Not even to mention a tale that includes one of the greatest tabu in the Western world.

But I think publishing the book is a great idea. I wonder if Lúthien and Beren may be next. Now that tale could potentially be turned into a blockbuster movie.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Beren and Lúthien would require a lot more editorial invention to produce a full length book then the Children of Húrin, which Tolkien put so much effort in.

I have no question that there will be a movie of the Children of Húrin at some point in the not too distant future (either before or after CT passes away). It is a natural.

[superwizard]

I have no question that there will be a movie of the Children of Húrin at some point in the not too distant future (either before or after CT passes away). It is a natural.

When's a "not too distant future" V? A year, 2 10??

I'm young and impatient