There can never be enough Bombadil!

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Jnyusa
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There can never be enough Bombadil!

Post by Jnyusa »

This thread is the continuation of a discussion started on Board 77:There can never be enough Bombadil!.

That thread advanced in several different directions - not all having to do with Bombadil - so I thought I would restart the topic here and focus on the portal into the world of faery provided by Bombadil and Goldberry.

I would be very appreciative if Athrabeth would copy here her extraordinary post from that thread, so that we can use it as the starting point for our discussion. :love:

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Post by Athrabeth »

<is blushing again> :oops:

Like Sass, I'd like to see that entire thread over here, but I'll happily copy and paste my post as a starting point to another excellent discussion.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Oh goodie, because I have a response to Ath's post that is almost ready to go. :)
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Post by Athrabeth »

<Well, here goes!>

I've done a bit of editing in the first couple of paragraphs because some of my references are not really applicable here:

I sat down several weeks ago to write my own responses to Tom’s character, quite certain that I knew what I wanted to say, quite sure of what Bombadil means to me. But putting my thoughts into words has proved to be rather more difficult than I anticipated, because, I realize, my feelings about old Tom continue to ebb and flow and evolve with each reading of LOTR, as well as with each discussion I have with others (most especially the others here) about the beautifully complex and powerful nature of Tolkien’s world that can, it seems, be constantly rediscovered as something totally unexpected, or newly recognized as a slightly different expression on an otherwise deeply familiar face. The Tom I “knew” as a teenager has grown up with me, and has taken on the joys and sorrows and gains and losses of my life. He has changed as I have changed, and has become redefined by lessons learned and beliefs embraced. Why, old Tom has even changed for me since this time last year, when some of us began our discussion of The Silmarillion.

This is a post that grew and changed in the writing , until I realized that I wasn’t on the same track anymore; that my thoughts had, like Tom’s meandering tales, taken me to places unforeseen.
So..........where should I begin?

Perhaps at the open door of the House of Bombadil.

Now let the song begin! Let us sing together
Of sun, stars, moon and mist, rain and cloudy weather,
Light on the budding leaf, dew on the feather,
Wind on the open hill, bells on the heather,
Reeds by the shady pool, lilies on the water:
Old Tom Bombadil and the River-daughter!


And with that song the hobbits stood upon the threshold, and a golden light was all about them.


It now seems so much more significant to me that the hobbits are at last drawn out of the darkness and fear of that conundrum of a forest, not just by the friendly, twinkling lights of Tom’s house in the distance, but by a door suddenly thrust open, and a great beam of bright light, and a song like “a glad water…falling like silver to meet them”.

Light and song and water: these elements are repeatedly used throughout LOTR and The Silmarillion. It seems that in our discussions in Teremia’s LOTR thread at TORC and the Sil thread here, we have returned time and again to matters related to the nature and meaning of light and music and song, and the power that is inherent in them. And quietly winding themselves through those discussions, perhaps more subtly, yet somehow ever present, are Tolkien’s “waters”: the great Sea, wide rivers, deep lakes, running streams, silver dews.

Eä’s first form is pure music, its first physical manifestation is as a “light, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame”, and the substance of the newly created world that is most greatly praised by the Ainur is water, in which the echo of the First Music is strongest. The Two Trees and their sacred light are brought into existence through Nienna’s flowing tears and Yavanna’s song. The Elves awake under brilliant stars kindled with the liquid light of Telperion that are reflected in the waters of Cuiviénen, and “the first sound that was heard…was the sound of water flowing, and the sound of water falling over stone.” From the time they first enter the myths and histories of Tolkien’s created world, light and music and water always serve the reader as something akin to portals through which one can catch glimpses of a deeper, more profound and unfathomably ancient “magic”: from the songs sung in the Hall of Fire, to the mirror of Galadriel, to the vision of a dead brother carried by the currents of Anduin, to Treebeard’s great vials of light and liquid in Wellinghall, to a single star that pierces the heart of small hobbit looking up from a dark and desolate land. And here, at the house of Bombadil, all three elements combine in a great burst of welcome for both the hobbits and the reader into a place resounding, as Faramond noted, with the “deepest and wildest magic” of all.

It came as a great surprise to me that I had never really considered that it is Goldberry’s song, not Tom’s, which greets the hobbits as they stand upon the threshold, blinking in the golden light of that lamp and candle filled room. It also had never struck me that her song is compared to “water…falling like silver”, so reminiscent of the imagery in Frodo’s dream. To be honest, I suppose I never really considered Goldberry much more than “Tom’s pretty lady” until my more recent readings of LOTR. But now I see many deeper elements revealed in her presence, and consider her absolutely integral to Tom’s character and Tom’s “magic”. Rather like the manner in which her song blends with Tom’s, but then takes it beyond the “derry doll”, turning it into something different - higher and more beautiful - Goldberry is both a part of Bombadil, and yet something unique and separate. Looking at both of them at this point in my life, I see them as quite a striking example of balancing opposites, like forces of yin and yang. They are both ageless, but he is forever old, and she forever young. He is rough and brown, wearing the deep, ripe colors of sky and fields in autumn, she is smooth and white, draped in the softer colors of waters and mist and budding spring. Upon this reading, I noticed the wonderful way each compliments the other in a seemingly simple little passage about setting the table:
Tom and Goldberry set the table; and the hobbits sat half in wonder and half in laughter: so fair was the grace of Goldberry and so merry and odd the caperings of Tom. Yet in some fashion they seemed to weave a single dance, neither hindering the other, in and out of the room, and round about the table….
Weaving “a single dance”…..I love that image, as well as the thought behind it. The house of Bombadil would not be the same were Goldberry not there. Tom himself, I think, would not be the same. With all that “yang” energy, it is certainly Tom that everyone muses upon, but to my mind, if he indeed is some kind of an echo of the First Music, then it is Goldberry, the River-daughter, that is the source of the song. For many years, I paid that old extrovert, Bombadil, all the attention, listening to his tales that reach back before Time was counted. But I think Goldberry too, sings of things long past and deeply mysterious:
After they had eaten, Goldberry sang many songs for them, songs that began merrily in the hills and fell softy down into silence, and in the silences they saw in their minds pools and waters wider than any they had known , and looking down into them they saw the sky below them and the stars like jewels in the depths.
I suppose that passage can well be taken at face value - as seeing the sky and stars reflected in wide, deep water - but this time, somehow, it seemed to me that I was gazing down upon Arda itself, surrounded by the Enfolding Ocean of Vaiya, with the ancient stars of Elentári shining upward to my wondering eyes. Ah yes, there is something about the house of Bombadil.

Upon this reading, I also noticed that the day the hobbits spend with Tom is completely within the little realm of the house itself, which more and more is seeming to me like some kind of a Tolkienesque version of the TARDIS. Interestingly, what necessitates this day of rest, which seems somehow to exist outside the boundaries of time and space, is rain: a steady veil of rain that obscures everything beyond the dwelling, so that “nothing could be seen all round the house but falling water.” And with it, once again, comes the song of Goldberry, “falling gently as if it was flowing down the rain out of the sky”. Although steady, it is certainly no deluge, but rather a “soft” rain, “sweet” and cleansing: water for the River-daughter’s “washing day” which will seek out the little streams that run towards the river which will in turn seek for the Sea. Is it any wonder that Tolkien decided that the house of Bombadil would be the place that Frodo dreams, or seems to dream, of passing through that veil of glass and silver into the Blessed Realm? :love:

And what of Tom himself? Well, I suppose that more than anything else, he reminds me of the “Sages” or “Masters” spoken of in the Tao Te Ching:

The Sage of old was profound and wise;
like a man at a ford, he took great care,
alert, perceptive and aware.
Desiring nothing for himself,
and having no desire
for change for its own sake,
his actions were difficult to understand.
Being watchful, he had no fear of danger;
being responsive, he had no need of fear.
He was courteous like a visiting guest,
and as yielding as the springtime ice.
Having no desires, he was untouched by craving.
Receptive and mysterious,
his knowledge was unfathomable,
causing others to think him hesitant.
Pure in heart, like uncut jade,
he cleared the muddy water
by leaving it alone.


That is from an interpolation of the Tao that I’m not normally drawn to, but this time somehow, the language fits. It’s title, by the way, is “The Manifestation Of The Tao In Man”………….hmmmmmmm ;) . Well, Tom is no Man, but for me, he represents that “inner sage” that I think we all have somewhere within us, rarely summoned but indescribably powerful, as fleeting moments when we just “are”. Once again, it was a post by the wise Anthriel that helped me put this thought into focus: that there are times when we become absolutely one with the moment – lost in the very essence of being, as much a part of the natural world as sunlight and starlight and water, as much a part of the rhythms of the world as the music they inspire. Funny that. For me at least, it is these things that seem to be pivotal whenever I have attained those astonishing moments of clarity; when I am “alone and nameless” in the sense that everything I “am” becomes focused into a singular point of immediate experience that cannot be contained or expressed in any word or called by any name. It’s like time and language and maybe even “knowledge” itself just cease to exist. I suppose it is what I understand to be “bliss”.

Well, there you have it. Time for another glass of Merlot, I believe, after going on for so long. I do so like all the Toms’ that you have shared with me. Thank-you. They are all wondrous, even Alatar’s, because if Bombadil truly was just a misplaced remnant of the earlier tale or even a self-indulgence on Tolkien’s part, he still has opened the door for me into a magical place, and like all magic, not knowing how it’s done is what makes it real.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Athrabeth wrote:I sat down several weeks ago to write my own responses to Tom’s character, quite certain that I knew what I wanted to say, quite sure of what Bombadil means to me. But putting my thoughts into words has proved to be rather more difficult than I anticipated, because, I realize, my feelings about old Tom continue to ebb and flow and evolve with each reading of LOTR, as well as with each discussion I have with others (most especially the others here) about the beautifully complex and powerful nature of Tolkien’s world that can, it seems, be constantly rediscovered as something totally unexpected, or newly recognized as a slightly different expression on an otherwise deeply familiar face. The Tom I “knew” as a teenager has grown up with me, and has taken on the joys and sorrows and gains and losses of my life. He has changed as I have changed, and has become redefined by lessons learned and beliefs embraced. Why, old Tom has even changed for me since this time last year, when some of us began our discussion of The Silmarillion.
This paragraph wonderfully describes why I am so happy to have a place where we can continue discussing Tolkien’s works. As much as I appreciated Tolkien before, my understanding and perspective about his writings has undergone a huge transformation in the past few years, as a result of these discussions. And I feel we have just touched the surface. :)
It now seems so much more significant to me that the hobbits are at last drawn out of the darkness and fear of that conundrum of a forest, not just by the friendly, twinkling lights of Tom’s house in the distance, but by a door suddenly thrust open, and a great beam of bright light, and a song like “a glad water…falling like silver to meet them”.

Light and song and water: these elements are repeatedly used throughout LOTR and The Silmarillion. It seems that in our discussions in Teremia’s LOTR thread at TORC and the Sil thread here, we have returned time and again to matters related to the nature and meaning of light and music and song, and the power that is inherent in them. And quietly winding themselves through those discussions, perhaps more subtly, yet somehow ever present, are Tolkien’s “waters”: the great Sea, wide rivers, deep lakes, running streams, silver dews.

Eä’s first form is pure music, its first physical manifestation is as a “light, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame”, and the substance of the newly created world that is most greatly praised by the Ainur is water, in which the echo of the First Music is strongest. The Two Trees and their sacred light are brought into existence through Nienna’s flowing tears and Yavanna’s song. The Elves awake under brilliant stars kindled with the liquid light of Telperion that are reflected in the waters of Cuiviénen, and “the first sound that was heard…was the sound of water flowing, and the sound of water falling over stone.” From the time they first enter the myths and histories of Tolkien’s created world, light and music and water always serve the reader as something akin to portals through which one can catch glimpses of a deeper, more profound and unfathomably ancient “magic”: from the songs sung in the Hall of Fire, to the mirror of Galadriel, to the vision of a dead brother carried by the currents of Anduin, to Treebeard’s great vials of light and liquid in Wellinghall, to a single star that pierces the heart of small hobbit looking up from a dark and desolate land. And here, at the house of Bombadil, all three elements combine in a great burst of welcome for both the hobbits and the reader into a place resounding, as Faramond noted, with the “deepest and wildest magic” of all.
I don’t really have anything to say to this. I just wanted to repeat it because it is about as beautiful a summary of Tolkien’s work as I could possibly imagine. ;)
It came as a great surprise to me that I had never really considered that it is Goldberry’s song, not Tom’s, which greets the hobbits as they stand upon the threshold, blinking in the golden light of that lamp and candle filled room. It also had never struck me that her song is compared to “water…falling like silver”, so reminiscent of the imagery in Frodo’s dream.
I too have never really considered that, Ath. But now that you have forced me to do so, it has given me great pause for thought, as I'll describe below.
To be honest, I suppose I never really considered Goldberry much more than “Tom’s pretty lady” until my more recent readings of LOTR. But now I see many deeper elements revealed in her presence, and consider her absolutely integral to Tom’s character and Tom’s “magic”. Rather like the manner in which her song blends with Tom’s, but then takes it beyond the “derry doll”, turning it into something different - higher and more beautiful - Goldberry is both a part of Bombadil, and yet something unique and separate. Looking at both of them at this point in my life, I see them as quite a striking example of balancing opposites, like forces of yin and yang. They are both ageless, but he is forever old, and she forever young. He is rough and brown, wearing the deep, ripe colors of sky and fields in autumn, she is smooth and white, draped in the softer colors of waters and mist and budding spring.
Its often struck me how different Tom and Goldberry are, but it never really occurred to me to think of them as "balancing opposites". It took your "taoist perspective" to bring this rather obvious point into focus for me. I particularly like your description of them as both ageless, but Tom being forever old, and Goldberry forever young.
Upon this reading, I noticed the wonderful way each compliments the other in a seemingly simple little passage about setting the table:
Tom and Goldberry set the table; and the hobbits sat half in wonder and half in laughter: so fair was the grace of Goldberry and so merry and odd the caperings of Tom. Yet in some fashion they seemed to weave a single dance, neither hindering the other, in and out of the room, and round about the table….
Weaving “a single dance”…..I love that image, as well as the thought behind it. The house of Bombadil would not be the same were Goldberry not there. Tom himself, I think, would not be the same. With all that “yang” energy, it is certainly Tom that everyone muses upon, but to my mind, if he indeed is some kind of an echo of the First Music, then it is Goldberry, the River-daughter, that is the source of the song. For many years, I paid that old extrovert, Bombadil, all the attention, listening to his tales that reach back before Time was counted.
I have often noted how complementary Tom and Goldberry were to each other; the "single dance" that they weave is something that always strikes me. But I've never really given that much thought much more about it. Like you, I have been so distracted by Tom's odd capering to pay sufficient attention to Goldberry.
But I think Goldberry too, sings of things long past and deeply mysterious:
After they had eaten, Goldberry sang many songs for them, songs that began merrily in the hills and fell softy down into silence, and in the silences they saw in their minds pools and waters wider than any they had known, and looking down into them they saw the sky below them and the stars like jewels in the depths.
I suppose that passage can well be taken at face value - as seeing the sky and stars reflected in wide, deep water - but this time, somehow, it seemed to me that I was gazing down upon Arda itself, surrounded by the Enfolding Ocean of Vaiya, with the ancient stars of Elentári shining upward to my wondering eyes. Ah yes, there is something about the house of Bombadil.
Ath, you started me thinking about this passage even before you posted this post, when you asked a question about it in the Tolkien trivia thread at board77. I find it more and more remarkable. Goldberry's placing these images in the hobbits minds brings to my mind the image of Olórin walking unseen among the Elves, or in form as one of them, placing “fair visions or the promptings of wisdom" in their hearts.

Honestly, Ath, I really don’t see how that passage can be "taken at face value," given its context. Tolkien’s descriptive language of these visions is so evocative of ancient wisdom and power, particularly to anyone steeped in Tolkien’s mythology.

Turning back to something that you said above:
It also had never struck me that her song is compared to “water…falling like silver”, so reminiscent of the imagery in Frodo’s dream.
This had never struck me before either. But it occurs to me that the obvious conclusion is that it was Goldberry that placed the imagery of that dream in Frodo’s mind. Consider:
But either in his dreams or out of them, he could not tell which, Frodo heard a sweet singing running in his mind: a song that seemed to come like a pale light behind a grey rain-curtain, and growing stronger to turn the veil all to glass and silver, until at least it was rolled back, and a far green country opened before him under a swift sunrise.
Its seems plain to me that the “sweet singing” that Frodo heard running in his mind must have been that of Goldberry (either actually singing as Frodo slept or in his memory from before). We’ve already seen her singing described in terms so evocative of this imagery, and we have already seen her singing described as placing images in the hobbit’s minds. I can reach no other conclusion but that she was the source of Frodo’s vision of the undying lands. And that in itself is a pretty remarkable statement about Goldberry's nature.

I think I am finally beginning to understand why Frodo was SO distressed at not having said goodbye to her. :)
there are times when we become absolutely one with the moment – lost in the very essence of being, as much a part of the natural world as sunlight and starlight and water, as much a part of the rhythms of the world as the music they inspire. Funny that. For me at least, it is these things that seem to be pivotal whenever I have attained those astonishing moments of clarity; when I am “alone and nameless” in the sense that everything I “am” becomes focused into a singular point of immediate experience that cannot be contained or expressed in any word or called by any name. It’s like time and language and maybe even “knowledge” itself just cease to exist. I suppose it is what I understand to be “bliss”.
Yes! This is something that I especially experience with playing music. There are times when I so lose myself in the moment that I almost cease to exist. It is no longer “I” that is playing my part in the song, it just is, with no conscious effort on my part. And that I think, is what Tom most represents – being so in tune with the rhythms of nature that your own actions are themselves perfectly “natural.”
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Post by Dindraug »

I had a thought about old Tom and Goldberry. Are they real?

This has to do with the nature of the mythic in early English and British thought, where they are real only in the sense that they actually exist, but not in the sense that they exist physically.

I know this sounds like contradiction, but it is not really. There are other realms, places that Tolkien dose not go into in his writings, but which were prevelent in the world view of the people he based his writings on; namely the Anglo Saxon, British, Romano British, etc etc. They are places like Faerie, Lyvondyss or even Avalon. They are part of another world, not this one.

Consider how we find out about Tom, Hobbits wander through a dark wood and find what is in effect a little country ruled by him, and to escape, they must go through a fog. Both otherwordly imagry. It is the same sort of image as we would get in the Mabinogion and some Irish myths, and most shamanic ones.

So, was Tom real in Middle Earth? People knew him, and have seen him in the same way that they knew Arawn, a sort of King of the Fae, but they have not seen the rest of his world or indeed Goldberry. Out of his world he can do nothing, in his world he is all powerful but not demonstrative. And consider the ring, the all powerful item for Middle Earth, did not work for Tom in Tom's land.

Was he a phantom, was part of Middle Earth at all, or was he part of that hazy other world that Tolkien barely acknowlages?

Just a thought I had ;)
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Interesting thought, Din. :) I'll have to think about it some more.
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Post by Athrabeth »

Dindraug wrote:I had a thought about old Tom and Goldberry. Are they real?
You know, after this last reading of their parts in the tale, I asked myself that same question.

There's something about Tom and Goldberry.................

First off, where exactly is Goldberry on "her washing day......her autumn-cleaning"? The hobbits (and the reader) never see her, and her presence is only felt through her song:
As they looked out the window there came falling gently as if it were flowing down the rain out of the sky, the clear voice of Goldberry singing up above them.
Where is "up above"? Upstairs? A nearby hill?

It seems as if the rain itself is infused with her song as it falls "from above"........that Goldberry is "the song" at this point, not a physical being, and it is the song that is cleansing the very earth and air and water around them.

There's also her mysterious reappearance (from where? from "outside"?) as Tom is finishing his tales that reach back into the depths of Time. Mirroring his final words, "He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside", there is shadow that seems to pass by the window which draws the hobbits' uneasy glance. But when they turn, there is Goldberry, "framed in light" in a doorway, the light of a candle "flowing" through her hand "like sunlight through a white shell". Is this a "flesh and bones" body that Tolkien is speaking about? Somehow it just doesn't seem so to me.

As for Tom, well, he can come in from the rain without being wet (except for his boots.........interesting, that), and speaks of "walking wide, leaping on the hilltops". Such talk, I think, has always conjured images in my mind of Tom being something rather "superhuman" or other-worldly, being able to somehow bound from hilltop to hilltop, and move through his domain with the apparent ease of someone not constrained by physical limitations.

And when Tom puts on the Ring, he doesn't disappear. Now I know that this illustrates that the Ring has no power over him; that because he desires nothing, there is no temptation to "bind him".......BUT, if he is not a corporeal being, if he is not a truly "physical presence", then there's really nothing to disappear, is there?

:scratch:
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Post by Sassafras »

I like this idea, Din.

Tom and Goldberry as the denizens of another realm ... an unseen parallel world that is removed from the bounderies of this world ... and the bridge between them can only be found by a certain set of circumstances or by happy accident.

Gandalf can obviously cross this bridge at will ... Elrond too, I suspect. But mere mortals probably must have something a little fey about them in order to find it.

Note how instantanous is Tom's appearence at the Barrow Downs when Frodo calls. Tom can straddle both worlds at will it seems.

Are they real?

Oh yes. I think they are real, all right. It's just a different reality, that's all.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Hi Sassy! :hug: I agree with you.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I imperiously split off the posts that were discussing the Ring/Rings of Power into a separate thread:

http://www.phpbber.com/phpbb/viewtopic. ... ffire#3704

Please feel free to move back to here anything that should not have been moved.
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Post by vison »

Rowanberry wrote: he is a lot like many native peoples in different parts of the world.
This fits my image of Bombadil.

The English countryside, or the Shire, is not "wild" in any sense. Yet it is what Tolkien knew as "nature", and Bombadil quite perfectly suits that sort of land as he is when we meet him. Yet, he is part of it, and always has been. Tom goes back, in his memory/existence, to a time when it WAS wild, I think. Before incomers felled the trees and ploughed the land and made it pastoral and rural, rather than wilderness.

Here where I live, in the real world, it is impossible for me to have that kind of spiritual connection to the land, I and my folk are too new here. But the First Nations do have that connection. And I think Tom has much in common with some of their myths. It's rather complicated, and I haven't really thought it through, but that's where my thinking is taking me. He is a kind of Shamanic figure, and has his own tools of power, whatever they are.

Tom is "immune" to the Ring, and to other "made" things, he is made of the Earth himself, and has no interest in objects apart from that.

Jeez. Maybe I should have posted this in the Bombadil thread.

Sorry, Voronwë, I would have moved it before only I just checked and saw that you asked. :)
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Post by Wildwood »

Clearly, I have a lot of catching up to do, but I just wanted to say that you quoted my favorite part of the whole Bombadil sequence! How he describes Tom's caperings vs Goldberry's graceful moviements....it has always struck me, right from the beginning.

Tom and Goldberry are one of those things that I probably don't *want* explained to me, too much! :D:D:D The mystery, the fantasy, the fancy surrounding them is part of their magic and charm for me. But what they represent to me is elemental earth, really. Always have.

For me - they represent the things that were there before, as you said, the wild was rendered pastoral. The key word being "rendered", because it did not just "become" pastoral. It was made that way. Elves, dwarves, hobbits, men....all of these creatures were put into Middle Earth and immediately set about working their will upon it, in various ways. But not Tom and Goldberry.

They have a power to do that, but they don't do it. They are content to be, and let be. Why does not Tom chop down Old Man Willow, with his black old heart? Clearly, the old tree is a danger to any unsuspecting passers by, and Tom may or may not be on hand to save them next time, right? But just as clearly, Tom does not feel this is his province. It may be his care, but it is not his province, if you see what I mean??

They care for the earth. They tend it, as one might tend a gardern. But never do they impose their will upon it. They are one with it. Stewards, maybe? And that is why they "came first, and will be last" if the ring is not destroyed, and also why (I believe) the ring has no hold on Tom, and why he'd be a most unsafe guardian, etc.

He manages, but he does not conquer and control. That's as close as I can come. And by giving up the need to control what is free, he becomes ultimately free himself (and herself!). And also - they are elemental in terms of the elements they represent. As you pointed out - Tom for earth and sky. Goldberry for water. Tom for green and growing things. Goldberry for the water and sunlight that they need to grow. For me, they *are* the earth part of Middle Earth. The physical manifestations, if you will, of the elements that make up the very stuff of the earth that all these other creatures seek to influence, either for domination or delight! :D:D:D:D:D

I can't imagine Tom waking the trees up and teaching them to talk, as the elves did, for instance! He would be perfectly content to let a tree be a silent tree. But the elves were curious and simply HAD to know what a tree *is*. Whereas Tom is content to know that a tree is and stop right there. Again - this is what gives him his power. What a conundrum. The complete disregard for and utter lack of desire for power seems to grant him greater power than anyone else has! :D:D:D:D:D

I find this part of the story fascinating, and always slow way down and read it with relish!! Ok - now I"m gonna shut up and finish gettin' schooled! I am soooo out of my league here! :D:D:D:D:D
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Post by Dindraug »

You are doing fine Wildwood :D

And bring up a masivly important point...
Tom and Goldberry are one of those things that I probably don't *want* explained to me, too much!
We always want mystery explained, we demand to know what was happening in the mind of the writer. Sometimes, it is best not to know.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I agree. (And if Din and I agree, it must be true. :P)
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Túrin Turambar
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Post by Túrin Turambar »

Fun fact: First time I read the book I was convinced Bombadil was evil. I kept saying to the hobbits 'No, don't go into his house! He'll eat you!".

Too many fairytales, perhaps?
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Post by Sassafras »

:shock:

A la Hansel and Gretel?

How old were you?

On my first reading I thought Tom was a minor deity ... a slightly annoying minor deity ... although I did findthe Barrow Downs rescue very cool.

:D
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Ever mindful of the maxim that brevity is the soul of wit, axordil sums up the Sil:


"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."

Yes.
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Post by Túrin Turambar »

Sass wrote:How old were you?
14 or 15. I wasn't sure that he was going to eat them, but I was certain he was a bad guy of some sort.
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Post by truehobbit »

I'm afraid I still haven't got round to doing this wonderful thread justice, but I wanted to share my friend's first impression of Tom and Goldberry.

I gave her FOTR for a Christmas present in 2004, and almost gave up hoping she'd ever be interested in reading it (I was hoping because we'd been to see the movies together and she loved them). I finally suggested that she skip the Foreword (after all she already knew the basics from the movies), and that helped! :)

Of course I was a bit worried what would happen when she came across Tom for the first time.

I trust she won't mind my quoting from her e-mail:
I find the story really interesting now with this strange man Tom. I think it's unfortunate that this part wasn't filmed - Tom's girl seems so out-of-this-world beautiful. I actually like Tom's strangeness and his happy spirits - a stark contrast to the gloomy atmosphere of Frodo's journey.
...
I found reading the book after the bit starting with Tom Bombadil made it difficult to put the book down! Strange sentence, eh? I meant to say that that's when it began getting exciting.
Needless to say I was thrilled to hear this! :D
I'm trying to think of some more questions about her first impressions now. :)
(And I'm waiting to hear what effect the largely action-free Council of Elrond will have - whether interest will be kept up!)
but being a cheerful hobbit he had not needed hope, as long as despair could be postponed.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Hobby, it will be interesting to see what reactions she has as she (hopefully) moves through the rest of the book. I hope that you will be able to share some of her impressions (or better yet, get her to join here and share them herself). :)
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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