Harry Potter - From the Beginning! (May refer to Book 7)

[Crucifer]

The Goblet of Fire constitutes a magically binding contract.

If something alse had been used, Harry might not have had to compete at all. The goblet of fire, being a very powerful magical object, that couldn't have been hoodwinked by a fourth year, was the only reason Harry had to compete.

[Túrin Turambar]

neither Bagman nor Dumbledore protest against the imperiused Crouch’s interpretation of the rules even though they have it on Harry’s word that he didn’t volunteer and must know that he would struggle to cope or even survive in the tournament, and Harry himself doesn’t flat-out refuse to compete.

Harry has no choice. It is a magically binding contract that if your name comes out, you must compete, whether you like it or not.

Or...?

Besides, aren't there some sort of defences or rules regarding people involuntarily nominated?

The more and more I read, the less and less I understand the ‘Snape is a really great guy and a better man than Dumbledore’ line. He hits a new all-time low with his ‘I see no difference’ line at Hermione’s cursed and rapidly-growing teeth. I can’t possibly understand why Lily didn’t want him…

I don't think there ever was a 'Snape is a really great guy and a better man than Dumbledore' line.

There was on TORC - I may have bene thinking of that. I wa surprised about some of the pro-Snape sentiments, though. Don't get me wrong, he's a fascinating character, but he's also a total bastard.

[Athrabeth]

Don't get me wrong, he's a fascinating character, but he's also a total bastard.

I "like" his character because of the layers that Rowling steadily peeled back. He was absolutely the most intriguing character of the series for me........until the final revelations in the DH added some really surprising, and very satisfying, complexities to Dumbledore.

But Snape the "better man"?

No way.

Bravery and loyalty don't always add up to "good-ness".

[Crucifer]

Besides, aren't there some sort of defences or rules regarding people involuntarily nominated?

I bet there would have been next time the tournament happened. Up until GoF, I doubt anything of that nature had happened.

Snape wasn't manipulative like Dumbledore...

But Dumbledore wasn't a malicious, jealous, childish bastard holding onto stupid grudges...

[MithLuin]

Snape was very judicious in choosing the final memories he would bequeath to Harry. From that snapshot, Snape comes out the better man than Dumbledore. Because we find out, finally, that Snape's number one priority is not 'defeat Voldemort' but 'save Harry'. And Dumbledore seems to be quite willing to sacrifice Harry in cold blood. But in reality...Dumbledore was not being entirely honest with Snape. He was pulling his strings, yet again, to try to get him to believe what he told Harry, so it would work. And Dumbledore had to know that Snape would not be able to tell Harry anything without revealing the fact that he loved Lily. Snape would never willingly have admitted that (especially not to Harry), and he had forbidden Dumbledore to speak of it. So....one last manipulation, and Snape spills his guts to Harry with his dying breath.

Snape is not the better man...but he does have a certain sense of integrity that is all the more surprising in someone like him. And Dumbledore was way out of line to request that Severus kill him just to prevent his wand from falling into the hands of a Deatheater.

[Impenitent]

And Dumbledore was way out of line to request that Severus kill him just to prevent his wand from falling into the hands of a Deatheater.

But he does not do so! The concern was to prevent Draco becoming a murderer. And Snape agreed to do so in part at least because Dumbledore was dying in any case from the curse that had withered his hand - he outright told Snape he would prefer the swift death that Snape could give him to the pain and suffering of the death by curse.

I keep thinking of Snape's life through those 16 years since Lily's death/Harry's survival. He lived alone, effectively having no friends nor the warmth of companionship, trusting no one except Dumbledore (and how grudging was that? I think he genuinely liked Dumbledore actually - the tell-tale exasperation in his tone, almost loving, when he told him off for putting on the cursed ring). What a lonely life he led! And yet he remained steadfast. I think he was an extraordinary man. Not a 'good' man - but I think that is such a simplistic view. Is there a 'good' man who has not done 'bad' things?

[Alatar]

Well, I'm back reading Book 2. I have to say Jk drops lovely hints about Ginny all the way through, while pretending that its "First year nerves" or "Harry Worship" that are her motivations, rather than worry over whats happening with the Diary (that we as yet know nothing of). Once again I'm struck by some of the childishness in tone that is absent in the later books. Nicks "Deathday Party" and Filches "Squib lessons" are all a bit juvenile. I can't remember if they made it into the Chamber of Secrets movie, but then I don't think I ever watched that a second time, cause I found it so cheap and nasty.

On the other hand, Snape as a character is developing brilliantly. His icy "I believe I am the Potions master at Hogwarts" when Lockhart offers to make the potion to restore Mrs Filch is wonderful. And yet he still maintains the nastiness of his character in his blatant favouritism to the Slytherins and his obvious bias against Harry, even down to suggesting he be removed from the Quidditch team.

Speaking of Quidditch, the whole "Whoever has the best brooms will win" is a bit crap. Its bad enough that Harry was just handed a Nimbus 2000 by McGonagle for no other reason than because he showed promise as a seeker, but the fact that Slytherin can gain a huge advantage merely by getting the newest brooms just sucks. I understand the mechanics of why JK uses this to create a sense of unfairness, but she didn't exactly apologise for Harry having a better broom than everyone else last year, did she? Its a crappy device, and the story suffers for it I think.

[Impenitent]

I'm listening to audiobooks lately while doing layout work (uses the visual cortex of the brain rather than the processing functions; I go to sleep doing this if I don't have something to keep the brain ticking over. Anyway...)

I'm listening to HP 1 now and a gaping plot hole reached out and hit me over the head.

Dumbledore and Nicolas Flammel were partners in alchemy and together created the Philosophers' Stone. Not sure of the dates (not given in the text) however we do know that Dumbledore was born in the 20th century, defeated Grindelwald in 1945 and thereafter (if the text is relating these milestones in chronological order) worked with Flammel.

Flammel is 665 years old in 1996 (or in the mid 90s anyway).

So...if the Philosophers' Stone was created by him and Dumbledore after 1945, how did Flammel live long enough to be around to work with? I mean...he must have been in his mid-500s when Dumbledore was born! What kept him alive all that time, eh? What kept him going up until the time he and Dumbledore created the first Philosophers' Stone?

grumble, grumble.

Very badly thought out plotline.

[Erunáme]

LOL! Good catch Imp!

(Btw, go visit my journal entry where I wished you happy birthday and check out the comments. )

[Impenitent]

I shall do so! I haven't been very good about keeping up with things for quite some time now. I'll try to do better.

[Crucifer]

Did Dumbledore and Flamel create the stone together? I'm pretty sure all that is mentioned is their joint work on alchemy. Dumbledore is the sort to only want to work with the best in their field, so he probably sought out Flamel, knowing that he is the only known maker of the stone.

[Erunáme]

I figured you didn't have email notification turned on. I would have a hard time keeping up if I didn't use that feature. I'd plain forget about comments.

.
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It seems that there isn't a plot problem. The back of Dumbledore's chocolate frog card says this:

Considered by many the greatest wizard of modern times, Dumbledore is particularly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindenwald in 1945, for the discovery of the twelves uses of dragon's blood, and his work on alchemy with his partner, Nicolas Flamel. Professor Dumbledore enjoys chamber music and tenpin bowling.

[Maria]

I just finished the series for the first time today. I'd read the earlier books, but hadn't read the last two yet.

We got the audio series of each book and have been going over them all over the summer since my husband hadn't read any of the books. It was kind of fun. None of our guesses about the last book were right, except for the dragon in Gringotts. I just knew they were going to use it to escape somehow, as soon as she described it as being kinda pitiful. I'd expected, however, that Harry could make himself understood in parsil tongue, though. They are both reptiles, after all. The languages ought to be similiar.

There came a time this week when the audio books were not available to me, and I wanted to keep going on book 7. So, I grabbed the paper copy and finished it. I found that I HAD to finish the audio books after that, though. The reader was SO good, that I just didn't get all the nuances of everything without him emphasizing certain things.

I liked it.

[Alatar]

Reading Prisoner of Azkaban now.

So much better than the first two...

[Primula Baggins]

I really like PoA. That was exactly where it stopped being "I'm reading this because my kids like it so much and I want to share their pleasure" and became "Hand me that book, you insolent whippersnapper!"

[Frelga]

My son started reading the books. Went straight through #1. #2... he's reading in fits and starts and says it's "scary." I am debating whether to even let him read #3.

"Why do they always get in trouble!" he says. Well, that's sort of the point of the book, darling. Wouldn't be much fun reading how they got up, had breakfast, nothing happened, they went to classes, nothing happened, and so on. Although HPverse is so delightfully imagined that I could put up with quite a bit of that. Did put up with pages and pages of that, in the later books.

But there's more, and that's the reason I'm glad he's reading the books. It's one of those magical stories where a kid can imagine coming face to face with all the power Evil can muster - and winning, where a kid can see himself being brave, loyal, kind, steadfast and enjoy the experience. These are the books that everyone must read growing up, because I really believe that they guard the goodness and nobility of this world.

[Impenitent]

Frelga, PoA presented me with the Dementors, which I found horrifying and I was therefore a little apprehensive about how my (then) 10 year old daughter would deal with those creatures.

I was very surprised indeed to find that the Dementors (on paper, at least) did not frighten her much. She told me that the giant snake had been much scarier for her.

I could only explain it to myself by reasoning that the psychological horror of a creature that feeds on the joy of others, leaving them only with despair, was a concept beyond the comprehension of a 10 year old who had not had to deal with despair. A giant snake, on the other hand, was a comprehensible monster for that age group.

Congratulations, btw, on your son finally finding the HP books; I know you've had some exasperating experiences in trying to encourage him to read.

[Teremia]

I've just been rereading Prisoner of Azkaban -- my favorite -- to my kids, and I have to admit there's one twenty page section that drives me nuts.

There they all are in the Shrieking Shack.

Time's a-wasting. Moon's a-rising. Snape's a-sneaking. Dementors ready to suck souls out right and left.

And Peter Pettigrew is still a rat, and Harry thinks Sirius is on the Dark Side.

OK, at this point, any sensible Lupin or Black would concisely and WITHOUT DELAY and in 35 words or less EXPLAIN what really happened. But no, we have 20 pages of artificially drawn-out bumbling and mumbling.

It was clear to me this time that the reason Rowling fell into this was that she wanted the chief info to come out in the conversation with Peter once he is "deRATified," but it is an appalling and frustrating scene, to my mind.

I really hate it when a simple sentence would clear things up, and characters don't do the natural, simple thing just to draw out the tension. Soap Operas, anyone? That's their basic modus operandi.

grumbles.

good book, though.

[Pearly Di]

I really hate it when a simple sentence would clear things up, and characters don't do the natural, simple thing just to draw out the tension. Soap Operas, anyone? That's their basic modus operandi.

Yes, and this modus operandi drives me nuts in films and TV dramas and soaps ... but I have to say I didn't notice it in my original reading of PoA.

Perhaps I am generally oblivious to things like that in books.

It's a long time since I read PoA though. November 1999.

And it was always my favourite one of the series, until ... DH!

Anyway: I've just re-read Order of the Phoenix and my re-reading was a much more satisfactory experience than my first reading.

I must have read it half asleep the first time round.

Anyway: I think OotP is a really good book. It's the 'downer' of the series, of course, gritty and gloomy in tone - it follows on from the devastating climax of GoF, in which a 14 year old Harry is brutally tortured by a resurrected Voldemort and Fudge goes into 1984 mode. OotP takes the saga onto a new level, darker and more sophisticated, which is appropriate as Harry is growing up fast and is facing increasing pressures. I empathise muchly with the angry, confused, upset 15 year old Harry in OotP. If I were him, I'd have been shouting at people and throwing things long before Book 5!

My only quibble with Book 5 is the Grawp subplot, which personally I find superfluous. The film portrayed this rather better, IMO, portraying Grawp as endearing rather than annoying. Otherwise: OotP is actually meticulously plotted and very moving in places.

Now for HBP! I've just reached Chapter Four.

- Good grief ... Snape never left Spinner's End. I tell you, that man has issues.

- Dumbledore makes me laugh. Dumbledore v Dursleys, yeah yeah Dumbledore! Reading knitting patterns in Muggle magazines while he's sitting on the loo, what IS he like?

- Kreacher makes me laugh too, and Vernon's reaction to him.

- Slughorn really is a bit of a creep, isn't he. So glad to know Jim Broadbent's playing him!

- Timeline quibble: we're now in summer 1996 so the Prime Minister in question is, historically speaking, John Major. The idea of Major being visited by Fudge is very amusing. But I can't help thinking it would have been a lot more fun if Rowling had tried to include more historically accurate details in this chapter, rather than just making stuff up. The PM is newly elected when Fudge visits him. Well, that doesn't correspond to anything in reality: Major was re-elected in 1992 and Blair came to power in 97.

P.S. I wonder if Kingsley Shacklebolt is shadowing Gordon Brown? I'll keep an eye out for him on the news.