Darwins 200th & US Politics

Post by **halplm** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:59 am

You wanna talk disadvantage, I was denied acceptance to the college I wanted to go to entirely because I was not "diverse" enough compared to those that did get in.

Treating people differently based on their race is racist, no matter who has the advantage in the situation.

The progressive position has always been about consolidating power, never about helping any underprivileged anyone. If they were about helping people, the inner cities would be beacons of utopian society. If they were about helping people, then they would not perpetuate the myth that only THEY can help minorities, and the big bad republicans are only out to hurt them.

Given the amount of money they suck out of the hated rich, they could simply PAY poor people for being poor, and they'd be better off than in the hands of the democratic party.

Post by **Hachimitsu** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:30 am

You know that fact explains a whole lot about you.

I won't post anything more on the subject since this is not the thread for it.

Post by **halplm** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:33 am

Trust me, I thought affirmative action was a bad idea long before I was adversely affected by it.

I have more examples as well, but I doubt even government grants and loans (I could have gotten if I was black or a woman) would have saved my business

.

Post by **JewelSong** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:50 am

halplm wrote:So if I'm hearing this correctly, you're saying that YOU get to determine what MY position really means....

I get to determine what it means to ME, yes.

My explanation was trying to be a bit more introspective, but I see it failed. No matter...carry on.

Post by **halplm** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:03 am

JewelSong wrote:
halplm wrote:So if I'm hearing this correctly, you're saying that YOU get to determine what MY position really means....
I get to determine what it means to ME, yes.

My explanation was trying to be a bit more introspective, but I see it failed. No matter...carry on.

I'd appreciate more information. Obviously, you can perceive my position however you like, and you can equate it to any other position you like, but if I try to make a point, and you claim my point is invalid simply because you equate it to another position which I am not trying to assert, I see it as a problem.

I think this is an extremely important discussion to have, and if it's another thread, that's fine, but my goal here is to both understand others' opinions, and have other understand mine, even if we disagree.

If we are failing to understand, but rather grouping each others' opinions into neat boxes that we DO understand, I think that we are failing to actually enter the discussions that are interesting and relevant.

I don't like talking past each other, and would much prefer universal (for the HOF only, of course, we can't be greedy

) understanding, if not agreement.

Post by **JewelSong** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:21 am

halplm wrote:I'd appreciate more information.

Then - please, go back and read each one of my posts pertaining to this particular discussion, especially when I give specific examples of the issue with "A" and "B". If you could read them as though you were a detached observer instead of the center of the discussion, that might shed a bit more light on what I am trying to say.

if I try to make a point, and you claim my point is invalid simply because you equate it to another position which I am not trying to assert, I see it as a problem.

It would be a problem if I was, in fact, claiming your points were invalid, but I am not. It is a bit more than that, but I don't think I can explain it any better than I have - especially not at 5:30am...

If you want to start a thread about perceptions and relevancy or something, I will try to contribute to it.

Post by **halplm** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:45 am

JewelSong wrote:
halplm wrote:I'd appreciate more information.
Then - please, go back and read each one of my posts pertaining to this particular discussion, especially when I give specific examples of the issue with "A" and "B". If you could read them as though you were a detached observer instead of the center of the discussion, that might shed a bit more light on what I am trying to say.

I have read them very carefully, and I find a significant issue with how you are portraying the (hypothetical, but often real) situation.

If I find a significant difference between my position, and the position you are attributing to me (that you find equivalent), then we are at a significant disagreement about the discussion. Perhaps it is relevant to focus on the differences (in this case) I am pointing out, so that we can better understand the differences between our points of view. Similarly, when I feel the need to bring up accepted "progressive" points of view that you do not agree with, we could come to an understanding about how your opinion differs from that of the "accepted" norm.

if I try to make a point, and you claim my point is invalid simply because you equate it to another position which I am not trying to assert, I see it as a problem.
It would be a problem if I was, in fact, claiming your points were invalid, but I am not. It is a bit more than that, but I don't think I can explain it any better than I have - especially not at 5:30am...

If you want to start a thread about perceptions and relevancy or something, I will try to contribute to it.

Indeed, 5:30am is a troubling time

. If a separate thread for this discussion is necessary, I think it would be relevant.

Post by **Cenedril_Gildinaur** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 pm

River wrote:Actually, the scientists call her Eve too. The mitochondrial Eve, to be exact. And she has a counterpart, the Y-chromosome Adam.

ETA: I can't help but wonder if the Adam and Eve story is a remnant of an oral history about leaving Africa. That would be a truly ancient memory, but it's a cute idea and I like it.

Yeah, but they lived tens of thousands of years apart. Talk about a May-December romance!

Post by **vison** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:23 pm

Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
River wrote:Actually, the scientists call her Eve too. The mitochondrial Eve, to be exact. And she has a counterpart, the Y-chromosome Adam.

ETA: I can't help but wonder if the Adam and Eve story is a remnant of an oral history about leaving Africa. That would be a truly ancient memory, but it's a cute idea and I like it.
Yeah, but they lived tens of thousands of years apart. Talk about a May-December romance!

Mitochondrial Eve's father was the Father of Us All, people.

I often like to think the Adam and Eve story is a remnant of something "real". But it actually works better as a metaphor/myth.

I've never really liked how it ended, though.

Post by **MithLuin** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:29 pm

Part of what's neat about the story is to consider what it would be like for two people to figure out what it means to be human in the absence of any culture. It's very much a, "hey...you're like me...we can talk...let's make up some words!" Starting from scratch. It would be a different experience from everyone else throughout history.

The mitochondrial Eve tells us something a little different, but it's still about origins and beginnings.

And I agree, the Fall is the single most depressing story of all time