Republican Presidential Candidates

Post by **Cenedril_Gildinaur** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:23 pm

Well, considering the current state of our national politics, a lack of experience is actually a good thing because the more experience a politician has the more experience he has at being wrong instead of right.

That makes Palin and Obama more qualified than anyone else in either primary.

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:27 pm

That she had some?

Hmm... being Governor of a state is one thing...

Well, yeah, that's pretty much all I feel like digging up right now, but feel free to explain why that's not enough... Make sure to mention how Alaska has no people and such, so it doesn't really count...

See, there's a key difference between being a congressman or senator... and actually being the guy (or gal) at the top. It's the same reason I'd rather have someone that was the CEO of a successful company as president than someone that had just been on a bunch of board of directors...

You have to be the one that steps up and makes the decisions. There can be no one to blame but yourself at that point, and you have to take the blame when it comes, just as you take the credit.

Post by **vison** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:27 pm

I lost my mind there for a minute.

Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:31 pm

Well, yeah, that's pretty much all I feel like digging up right now, but feel free to explain why that's not enough... Make sure to mention how Alaska has no people and such, so it doesn't really count...

If you don't have the energy to substantiate your own claims, then there is nothing for us to talk about, hal. If you make a claim, the burden is on you to support it. If you refuse, then your opinion will be ignored for lack of substantial insight.

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:34 pm

If you believe it's the right thing to do, best for yourself, your state, and your country... absolutely. That exactly the kind of decision making that is necessary in a leader. She knew she would take heat for it, and did it anyway because she believed it to be the right thing to do.

She hasn't sold me personally on that decision yet, but we'll see.

Post by **sauronsfinger** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:41 pm

That exactly the kind of decision making that is necessary in a leader.

Leadership through quitting. A rather unique definition. Palin took a solemn oath to do her job that the people of Alaska elected her to do to the best of her abilities. She violated her oath of office and betrayed the people of Alaska.

from Vison -

I lost my mind there for a minute.

so its catching then?

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:50 pm

TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
Well, yeah, that's pretty much all I feel like digging up right now, but feel free to explain why that's not enough... Make sure to mention how Alaska has no people and such, so it doesn't really count...
If you don't have the energy to substantiate your own claims, then there is nothing for us to talk about, hal. If you make a claim, the burden is on you to support it. If you refuse, then your opinion will be ignored for lack of substantial insight.

I think my ONE piece of evidence is plenty. You are free to disagree and dismiss my perspective if you like (because I'm sure if I presented enough evidence you'd be convinced

), but you don't set the burden of proof around here.

Post by **Cenedril_Gildinaur** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:53 pm

Is it the case that anyone who leaves office before the term expires is guilty of betraying the constituents?

Didn't Obama leave his Senate seat before his term expired?

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:53 pm

sauronsfinger wrote:
That exactly the kind of decision making that is necessary in a leader.
Leadership through quitting. A rather unique definition. Palin took a solemn oath to do her job that the people of Alaska elected her to do to the best of her abilities. She violated her oath of office and betrayed the people of Alaska.

Well, she certainly didn't violate her oath or betray the people of Alaska if she thought the state was better served by stepping down.

I didn't actually say that quitting was an act of leadership... I said that making hard decisions that you're going to be critisized for was an act of leadership. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Post by **sauronsfinger** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:13 pm

The "hard decision" was violating her oath of office to serve the people of Alaska and quit in the midst of a term she was elected to and promised to serve.

Of course, she demonstrated during the campaign with the clothing that she could not turn down a buck when offered to her. So this was no surprise.

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:54 pm

you just can't stop trying to trash her... it's amazing really.

again with the clothes... really? You seem to be implying she kept all those clothes, that it was some exercise in vanity and greed...

The "hard decision" (why the quotes?) was to do what she thought best when she knew she would be personally attacked for doing it.

You can claim it's all those things you list, but that doesn't make it true...

Post by **sauronsfinger** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:01 am

Can't stop trashing her?!?!?!
It was Sarah Palin and her own behavior which trashed Sarah Palin. I had nothing to do with it .

Why the quotes? Because I do not believe for one second that it was "a hard decision at all". Palin demonstrated that she liked feeding at somebodys elses trough. She enjoyed every minute of it.

But you see Hal, I am on your side and Palins side. I hope greatly that she raises enough money to run for President in 2012. I hope she does so as a Third party candidate and declares within the next 12 months so that she can do the hard work of getting on the ballot and properly organizing. If she did that, I would even donate a dollar or two towards that effort.

Failing that, I hope she runs for and gets the Republican nomination in 2012 at the very tiptop of the ticket. That would put a very broad smile upon my aging face. I would raise a glass and toast Ms. Palin the minute she achieves that level of success.

Post by **halplm** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:04 am

I felt the same way as you about Obama.

How will you feel when she's elected the next President of the United States?

Post by **halplm** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:11 am

sauronsfinger wrote:Can't stop trashing her?!?!?!
It was Sarah Palin and her own behavior which trashed Sarah Palin. I had nothing to do with it .

when you mischaracterize her actions in a negative way, that's called "trashing her."

Why the quotes? Because I do not believe for one second that it was "a hard decision at all". Palin demonstrated that she liked feeding at somebodys elses trough. She enjoyed every minute of it.

Did she? Did she enjoy when David Letterman talked about her daughter getting knocked up? Did she enjoy being mocked by every liberal news outlet out there? I don't think she did personally.

Oh, you mean she enjoyed spending campaign money on fancy clothes and wants to do that again...

No, that's not trashing her at all...

Post by **sauronsfinger** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:16 am

Palin did what Palin did and she must live with that. The clothing is but one glaring example of her feeding at the trough when someone else is picking up the tab for her gluttony.

I do not condone or excuse Letterman and his remarks. He should not have said it and he himself says so.

Palin trashed herself. She has herself and her own behavior to blame. I had nothing to do with it. If she did not first do it, nobody including myself could say word one about it.

Halplm asks me

How will you feel when she's elected the next President of the United States?

I am eager to roll those dice.... extremely eager ... very eager .... am salivating at the possiblility eager. Bring it on.

Post by **halplm** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:21 am

Except she didn't do it, and you saying she did is trashing her.

She was not gluttonous, she did not "feed at the trough."

She was in a campaign for elected office...

Obama's campaign spent $730 million

McCain's spent $333 million...

Post by **vison** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:29 am

And she still hasn't given the clothes back.

Oh, she's an amazing woman. I am with sf on this one. I am crossing my fingers in hope that someone is stupid enough to put this woman up for POTUS and that she is . . . . going to accept the nomination.

Sadly, fairy tales don't come true very often. Wouldn't it be nice if they did? I like fairy tales and fabulous stories and strange tales of all kinds.

Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:03 am

halplm wrote:
TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
Well, yeah, that's pretty much all I feel like digging up right now, but feel free to explain why that's not enough... Make sure to mention how Alaska has no people and such, so it doesn't really count...
If you don't have the energy to substantiate your own claims, then there is nothing for us to talk about, hal. If you make a claim, the burden is on you to support it. If you refuse, then your opinion will be ignored for lack of substantial insight.
I think my ONE piece of evidence is plenty. You are free to disagree and dismiss my perspective if you like (because I'm sure if I presented enough evidence you'd be convinced ), but you don't set the burden of proof around here.

Try me. Your quick dismissal of even attempting a real proof of your point is not proof that I will dismiss your evidence and conclusion. This is the same as you saying that you won't even try out for a part in the community theatrical production of Faust because you won't get it anyway. Self-defeatism is a very interesting, though pointless, debate tactic.

Obama did leave his office, C_G. So did a number of members of congress that gained appointments in the new administration. Are you trying to equate stepping down from your Senate seat to become president with stepping down from your governorship to write a book and go on tour as on equal terms? Disingenuous indeed.

Post by **halplm** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:48 am

But... you haven't said how being a governor of a state isn't enough evidence... Clearly you think it isn't, but you haven't said why...

Post by **Lidless** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:37 am

Well, a republican would say that.

Let's look at the first 1:12 of this:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-s ... ender-card