Hobbit film pitfalls

[Kezmoid]

I'll be interested to see how they handle the "wraith-world" when Bilbo is wearing the Ring. Is it going to be as blurry and dark as it is in the LotR films?

I would say the "actual answer" is that the ring wasn't the One Ring in The Hobbit. As for the "not fully activated" type answer that a lot of people try to point to, I think that is going to be hard to pull off while at the same time playing up the Dol Guldur/White Council/Necromancer/Sauron storyline.

It might depend on what angle on the Necromancer storyline they go for. Perhaps the White Council scenes will be dominated by finding out who (or what) the Necromancer is, rather than already knowing it's Sauron and he's after the Ring.

... This whole Itaril thing has me going ...

Me too River, especially the romance part. I'm also wondering what role the "Elf Lord" on the casting sheet will play (see here for details).

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'll be interested to see how they handle the "wraith-world" when Bilbo is wearing the Ring. Is it going to be as blurry and dark as it is in the LotR films?

This is particularly of concern, because Bilbo wears the Ring much more than Frodo does, and in contexts in which his invisibility is particularly important. Contrast the scene on Weathertop, in which the wraith-world was naturally shown since the Witchking and his colleagues could see Frodo in that world, with Bilbo's conversation with Smaug.

Remember that in LOTR they did not show Bilbo in the wrath-world when he used the Ring at the Party. But that was a quick disappearance and reappearance. How will they handle something like Bilbo's defeat of the spiders, in which he uses the Ring for a long period of time.

I would say the "actual answer" is that the ring wasn't the One Ring in The Hobbit. As for the "not fully activated" type answer that a lot of people try to point to, I think that is going to be hard to pull off while at the same time playing up the Dol Guldur/White Council/Necromancer/Sauron storyline.

It might depend on what angle on the Necromancer storyline they go for. Perhaps the White Council scenes will be dominated by finding out who (or what) the Necromancer is, rather than already knowing it's Sauron and he's after the Ring.

That's a good point, and an excellent observation. While my preference would have been a straighforward one-movie adaptation of just The Hobbit, I'm really curious to see how they handle this.

... This whole Itaril thing has me going ...

Me too River, especially the romance part. I'm also wondering what role the "Elf Lord" on the casting sheet will play (see here for details).

I'm not at all taking that casting sheet as necessarily accurate, although it did correctly predict that Drogo (and presumably Primula) would be cast. We'll have to wait and see how that plays out. If Saoirse Ronan is in fact cast as Itaril, I doubt it will be much of a love story. She's too young for that.

[Elentári]

I'll be interested to see how they handle the "wraith-world" when Bilbo is wearing the Ring. Is it going to be as blurry and dark as it is in the LotR films?

As I suggested earlier today, I think one could easily dismiss Frodo's insight into the "wraith-world" as being caused by the proximity of the Nazgûl each time in FotR... or at Amon Hen, the seat of seeing, when he was so much closer to Mordor, and Sauron was actively searching for "vibes" from the Ring!

I don't see why it would "ring false" for Bilbo not to enter the "wraith-world" in HOBBIT. That's not something that would bother me watching the movie for the first time in the theatre...

[Frelga]

Bilbo did not enter the wraith-world in FOTR, either, when he used the Ring to escape from the birthday party. He emerged happily chuckling. There is no indication in the movie (or the book) that anything unusual happened to him while he was wearing it.

[axordil]

Maybe he was used to it?

The Ring works the same way, but the side effects do seem to change as proximity to Sauron or the extensions of his will increases.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Bilbo did not enter the wraith-world in FOTR, either, when he used the Ring to escape from the birthday party. He emerged happily chuckling. There is no indication in the movie (or the book) that anything unusual happened to him while he was wearing it.

As I said a few posts above you.

[Holbytla]

I would say the "actual answer" is that the ring wasn't the One Ring in The Hobbit. As for the "not fully activated" type answer that a lot of people try to point to, I think that is going to be hard to pull off while at the same time playing up the Dol Guldur/White Council/Necromancer/Sauron storyline.

And I would agree. And I would also add that that was what lead to the Gandalf plot hole with regards to his lack of sureness with what ring Bilbo found.

[Frelga]

I'm sorry I missed your post, V.

[eborr]

Tend to agree that Bilbo entering the wraith world may not be too much of an issue, it's much worse for Frodo as he assoiciates it with the Naxgul, Bilbo could well rationalise it as a by product of being visible, ie the world cannot see him, so it's no surprise he can't see the world clearly. The other issue is, (or maybe excuse my lack of recent familiarity with the Hobbit) how can Bilbo appear invisible to Gollum, surely Gollum inhabits elements of the wraith world due to his long exposure to the ring.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I think it is more of an issue of how to show him be invisible for long stretches of important time.

(Frelga, I was just teasing you.)

[axordil]

I think it is more of an issue of how to show him be invisible for long stretches of important time.

This is an interesting techincal/filmmaking point on its own. There were really only a few "Invisible Man" effects in LOTR, which when you consider how central the Ring is, at first glance, curious. The reason is actually embedded in the books: when Bilbo, Frodo or Sam are using the Ring, their actions generally are those of someone trying NOT to give themselves away. Moreover, the longest stretches of Ring use, and thus invisibility (in the movies), are at Amon Hen and Amon Sûl, where the central action is in the "wraith" world anyway.

The Hobbit's a bit different. The scene with Bilbo and Smaug takes place with an invisible protagonist. This is fine and dandy on the page, but on the screen it's an issue. Go back and look (if you can stomach it) at the Rankin Bass cartoon Hobbit. Yeah, they cheated, but there's a reason, and I'm right alongside V-man in wondering how they'll handle it.

[Dave_LF]

Maybe the whole conversation with Smaug will take place on some sort of astral place, simultaneously dodging this problem and the lip-synch thing.

[Frelga]

Actually, the Smaug scene is a good argument for using the wraith-world effect, so they can show Bilbo and still have it be clear that he's invisible.

Well, an argument anyway.

V,

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The Smaug scene, and the spider scene. We will have to be able to see Bilbo during those sequences, doncha think?

[yovargas]

I'm betting they'll be intercutting between Bilbo's wraithy POV and non-wraithy shots of things being done invisibly (eg. "invisible" footsteps, stuff being pushed around by nothing, ect). Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. This ain't the first movie with invisible people.

[SirDennis]

Personally I prefer the super translucent jelly effect sometimes used in movies to render invisibility. It may have made the floating Gollum scene appear less comical. (Was he riding a mechanical bull or Frodo? Who can say?)

I'm a little sketchy on the exact description from The Hobbit . Didn't Tolkien say that in bright sunlight it would be possible to see a ghosted figure or at least the invisible person's shadow? That might be a spooky effect.

[axordil]

That jibes with my memory of the extent of the invisibility provided, SirD. Then again, the two longish scenes V-man alludes to are both somewhere between deep dark forest dark and inside a mountain dark.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Yes, he did say that in bright sunlight, the ringbearer's shadow was slightly visible.

[Holbytla]

I seem to remember something about the noon day sun casting a shadow, but I could be making that up.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The exact quote is:

only in the full sunlight could you be seen, and then only by your shadow, and that would be shaky and faint

Later, when Bilbo is stuck in the exit door from the Goblin's back entrance:

Suddenly one of the goblins inside shouted: "There is a shadow by the door. Something is outside!"