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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Wrong within normal parameters
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Heck, until just now when I went and looked it up, I always thought Oz was a black-and-white film that had been colorized later when such things became possible.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:29 pm 
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of Vinyamar
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Nope. And in fact, the Kansas scenes aren't even true Black and White. They're sepia toned.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:04 pm 
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Meanwhile...
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*Wikies* Huh. Technicolor goes back to 1916, although it started as a two-color process. Cool story, actually. They had full color by 1929 but then Depression hit and they rolled back to save money. The Wizard of Oz came out in 1939.

And the Brits had a two-color process back in 1906!

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‘There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.’
‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’
‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.’
Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Wrong within normal parameters
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Well; to further embarrass myself, I also thought Technicolor was a process used to convert black-and-white films to color.

Kinda takes some of the subtext out of "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat."


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:52 am 
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Lán de Grás
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Continuing with the Oz books - in "The Patchwork Girl of Oz" (1913) there's an episode where Ojo and his companions are captured (swallowed) by tree-like plants. They are rescued by The Shaggy Man who uses music to release them (actually whistling instead of singing).

I wonder if Tolkien had read this and either consciously or unconsciously had this episode in mind when Frodo and his companions reached the Old Forest? Considering the popularity of the Oz books in the early 20th century, it's not unreasonable to think that he read them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:25 pm 
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I wouldn't be surprised if there was another, ancient, myth in which a tree swallowed people and had to be sung to. I tried googling for it right now, but I got a million results.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Lán de Grás
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Did one of those results cite an actual real myth? I'd be interested to read it...

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:16 pm 
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I got a gazillion results for tree/plant myths and music myths. But nothing that popped out specific to the one we are thinking of. Am intrigued, I’ll try again.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:36 pm 
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This has been bugging me, but I finally remembered something. How about this (Wikipedia's article on the witch Sycorax):
Quote:
In The Tempest, Prospero describes Sycorax as an ancient and foul witch native to Algiers, and banished to the island for practising sorcery "so strong / That [she] could control the Moon".[2] Prospero further relates that many years earlier, sailors had brought her to the island, while she was pregnant with her bestial son, Caliban, and abandoned her there, as by some ambiguous reason, she was spared being put to death. She proceeded to enslave the spirits there, chief among them Ariel, whom she eventually imprisoned in a pine tree for disobedience. Sycorax birthed Caliban and taught him to worship the demonic god Setebos. She dies long before the arrival of Prospero and his daughter, Miranda. Caliban grows to hate Prospero's presence and power on the island, claiming that the land belongs to him since it was his mother's before Prospero appeared.

Prospero to Ariel:
Quote:
What torment I did find thee in; thy groans
Did make wolves howl and penetrate the breasts
Of ever angry bears: it was a torment
To lay upon the damn'd, which Sycorax
Could not again undo: it was mine art,
When I arrived and heard thee, that made gape
The pine and let thee out.

Prospero didn't sing (necessarily); he was a magician ("mine art").

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― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 12:07 am 
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Lán de Grás
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Was it today's xkcd that reminded you of the witch Sycorax? :D

My impression of L. Frank Baum, from all the other Oz books up to this one, is that he's not influenced by any traditional mythology but just makes up randomly weird creatures on the spot out of his own head.

From your description, I think the Old Forest episode in Tolkien has more in common with the Oz incident than the Sycorax myth. But who knows? Is he on record discussing either of these sources?

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 1:08 am 
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Living in hope
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That must be it! I read it this morning and rushed on to work, but it was in the back of my mind.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 2:43 pm 
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not something I would recommend
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Jude wrote:
real myth

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Lán de Grás
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Yeah, I wondered about that right after I wrote it...

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 4:12 pm 
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not something I would recommend
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:D

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