Impeachment
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Impeachment
And Murkowski is reportedly voting no on witnesses and documents too.
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"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: Impeachment
Murkowski's argument seems to boil down to "We don't have enough facts so we're going to refuse to find more." I'm not following the logic. Who's buying into this and why?
When you can do nothing what can you do?
- elengil
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Re: Impeachment
Trump's base.River wrote:Murkowski's argument seems to boil down to "We don't have enough facts so we're going to refuse to find more." I'm not following the logic. Who's buying into this and why?
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Impeachment
In hindsight, the Democrats should absolutely have included an Article of Impeachment alleging Obstruction of Justice based on the findings of the Mueller report. The only reason they didn't was political; the more moderate representatives from districts that Trump won in 2016 didn't want them. But all the so-called deficiencies that were attacked in the Articles that were presented would not have been the case. 1) It does allege a specific crime; 2) there is full record based on an independent years long investigation by a special counsel appointed by the Justice Department; and 3) they did go to court to compel testimony by the key witness, former White House Counsel Don McGahn.
This will never happen, but if I were then, I would immediately go forward with a new article of impeachment and start the process all over again.
This will never happen, but if I were then, I would immediately go forward with a new article of impeachment and start the process all over again.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- elengil
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Re: Impeachment
Should also have included violations of emoluments.Voronwë the Faithful wrote:In hindsight, the Democrats should absolutely have included an Article of Impeachment alleging Obstruction of Justice based on the findings of the Mueller report. The only reason they didn't was political; the more moderate representatives from districts that Trump won in 2016 didn't want them. But all the so-called deficiencies that were attacked in the Articles that were presented would not have been the case. 1) It does allege a specific crime; 2) there is full record based on an independent years long investigation by a special counsel appointed by the Justice Department; and 3) they did go to court to compel testimony by the key witness, former White House Counsel Don McGahn.
This will never happen, but if I were then, I would immediately go forward with a new article of impeachment and start the process all over again.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
- elengil
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Re: Impeachment
https://www.nj.com/politics/2020/01/tru ... -done.html
Even John Kelly thinks witnesses should be called.
Even John Kelly thinks witnesses should be called.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
- elengil
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election
Censure if not remove?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/03/politics ... index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/03/politics ... index.html
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases
Well, something came out of it.yovargas, on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 8:51 am wrote:Voronwë the Faithful wrote:I suspect that eventually the details of the complaint will leak out, and Democrats will be outraged, and Republicans will be outraged at the Democrats outrage, and probably nothing will come of it.
Regardless of the outcome, I'll take that bet.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election
Since Manchin's resolution would need McConnell's permission to get a vote, it is extremely unlikely to happen. I'd love to see how many GOP senators would actually vote for it.elengil wrote:Censure if not remove?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/03/politics ... index.html
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Impeachment
Doug Jones of Alabama announced that he will vote to convict and remove Trump. That will obviously be a very unpopular decision in heavily Republican Alabama, and could well seal Jones' own fate in his reelection campaign this year (although admittedly he faced an uphill battle either way). I give him credit for doing what he thinks was right, nonetheless.
The one remaining undecided (or at least unannounced) Senator is Joe Manchin, from even more heavily Republican West Virginia. Manchin, you will recall, was the one Democrat to vote to confirm Kavanaugh. I suspect that he will be the one Democrat to vote to acquit Trump as well.
ETA: Actually Kyrsten Sinema has also not said how she will vote, along with Mitt Romney. I seriously doubt that Romney will become the lone Republican to vote to convict Trump as it would likely make him a complete pariah in his party. I wouldn't be that surprised if Sinema votes to acquit though.
The one remaining undecided (or at least unannounced) Senator is Joe Manchin, from even more heavily Republican West Virginia. Manchin, you will recall, was the one Democrat to vote to confirm Kavanaugh. I suspect that he will be the one Democrat to vote to acquit Trump as well.
ETA: Actually Kyrsten Sinema has also not said how she will vote, along with Mitt Romney. I seriously doubt that Romney will become the lone Republican to vote to convict Trump as it would likely make him a complete pariah in his party. I wouldn't be that surprised if Sinema votes to acquit though.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: Impeachment
Romney is voting to convict on one count.
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Impeachment
Wow! Needless to say, I am surprised. I really didn't think he would go through with it. I have to say, I'm impressed.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Impeachment
He is, literally, the first Senator in U.S. history to vote to convict and remove a president of his own party.
Did I say "Wow!"? That doesn't even come close to expressing my surprise.
Did I say "Wow!"? That doesn't even come close to expressing my surprise.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Impeachment
Damn, watching Romney's announcement of his vote made me tear up.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: Impeachment
Haven't watched his announcement yet.
The thing about Romney I think, is that his faith and his morals are real. Which is more than I can say for the hypocrites clustering under the banner of Christian faith yet voicing full-throated support for Trump's cruel side. And this is probably where he needs to watch his back when it comes to large swathes of his current political home. I'd like to see him run as an independent - he shouldn't have any trouble getting elected in Utah and that would free him up to act on his morals more.
Once morals become partisan, I fear that ... well, that's a sentence that is hard to complete. Morals is supposed to be something that humanity shares.
The thing about Romney I think, is that his faith and his morals are real. Which is more than I can say for the hypocrites clustering under the banner of Christian faith yet voicing full-throated support for Trump's cruel side. And this is probably where he needs to watch his back when it comes to large swathes of his current political home. I'd like to see him run as an independent - he shouldn't have any trouble getting elected in Utah and that would free him up to act on his morals more.
Once morals become partisan, I fear that ... well, that's a sentence that is hard to complete. Morals is supposed to be something that humanity shares.
- RoseMorninStar
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Re: Impeachment
It certainly was a profile in courage. And honor. Honesty. I greatly admire those traits.Voronwë the Faithful wrote:Damn, watching Romney's announcement of his vote made me tear up.
My heart is forever in the Shire.
Re: Impeachment
Wonder why he voted yes on abuse of power but not on obstruction.
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
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I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
- elengil
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Re: Impeachment
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/susan-coll ... d=81760957
I wonder what on earth Collins thinks Trump learned... other than the very stark lesson "you can do whatever you want and noone will ever hold you accountable"... he certainly seems to have gotten that memo loud and clear.
I wonder what on earth Collins thinks Trump learned... other than the very stark lesson "you can do whatever you want and noone will ever hold you accountable"... he certainly seems to have gotten that memo loud and clear.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Impeachment
All the Democrats voted to convict on both charges.
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"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."