Bitter Chocolate

The place for measured discourse about politics and current events, including developments in science and medicine.
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Griffon64
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Post by Griffon64 »

We noticed some fair trade cocoa at Trader Joe's this evening. Before, I wouldn't have been sure what that meant!
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narya
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Post by narya »

I'm reading "Collapse" by Jared Diamond right now. It is a very thorough and facinating description of how civilizations work, and how anthropologists and archeologists determine how they worked. One by one, he describes ancient civilizations, then shows how they spiral into oblivion. So far I've read about Polynesia, the Anasazi, the Maya, and the Norse Greenlanders. In each case, there were a number of factors that, together, overwhelmed the people, driving them to wars, starvation, and even canibalism. Each demise includes a complex mixture of ecological ruin. The people overharvest trees for lumber, charcoal (used to make plaster, for example), and cooking fuel. The loss of woodlands, combined with overgrazing by livestock results in topsoil loss. Poor surface and ground water mismanagement result in loss of agriculturally useful lands. Yet the people don't seem to see this. They only see that they are having a run of above average years, and expand their families, livestock and farmland. The good years are inevitably followed by a run of below average years (colder or dryer weather), and then there are too many people for the land to support. Meanwhile, the heads of state and religious leaders choose to sink large amounts of manpower and resources into luxury or religious items (such as Easter Island's statues), or go to war with neighboring groups in order to secure scarce resources. One other key factor is the loss of trading partners, either because of climate changes (sea ice) or ecological changes (no more trees to build boats) or a change in the politics of the region. The loss of trade is one more unbalancer for fragile economies that depended on key, but not locally available, trade goods.

The book goes on to describe present day collapsing civilizations, including Rwanda and Haiti, and has some suggestions on how not to repeat history. I'll have to decide how to handle my chocolate addiction after I finish the book. :P
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Maria
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Post by Maria »

Health food stores almost always have fair trade and/or organic chocolate available. At least that's where I have to go to find it here.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Jnyusa wrote:Does anyone ever wonder what the economy in those countries looked like before Europe colonized them?
I have some idea of what the economy was like in West Africa before it was colonized by the Europeans. The Ivory Coast was part of the great Mali Empire. In rural areas, it was very subsistence oriented, with self-sustaining villages with both agriculture and hunting. But the cities were very rich and cosmopolitan. Timbuktu was a great center of learning and erudition while Europe was mired in the Middle Ages. When the Mali Empire was at the height of its power in the late 14th Century, it was so rich that when the great emperor Mansa Musa made his pilgrimage to Mecca, he gave away so much gold that it devalued currencies all through Europe.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Jnyusa
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Post by Jnyusa »

Yes! Mali and the Niger River valley were already important to Mediterranean in Phoenician times. The rise and fall of Timbuktu is a fascinating story.

Halofirians, Raise your hand if you learned about the Mali empire at any time during your education. :(

The other place that was the center of the world while Europe was in the Dark Ages was Afghanistan. A bit later, 15th century, but descendants of the Timurid Dynasty were still ruling northern India when the Brits arrived mid-17th ce. Fabulous wealth and learning in those cities, utterly destroyed by colonialism.

Jn
A fool's paradise is a wise man's hell.
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Rodia
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Post by Rodia »

Fair Trade research interests me very much, and it frustrates the heck out of me. It seems impossible to avoid taking part in the exploitation of someone, somewhere. I am not going to give up because of it, and if I know a brand is doing more harm than good, I'd rather not buy. But it's not an easy objective.

I have yet to find out whether this gorgeous mac that I think I worked hard for for six months was assembled in China by people who get paid enough in six months to live decently in that period. Some days I feel like I'd like to just shoot out to space, but who says my spaceship wouldn't come from a sweatshop assembly line?

Some people go to extremes and reject being a part of the economy entirely, living off scraps by choice. I was surprised to hear that there is such a thing as 'freegans'. And I'm not sure they're so ok, either, since their survival depends on what we normal consumers leave behind. What a world of difficulties. When I get on a plane, how much of the money I saved on the ticket do I owe the underpaid people down at the very edges of the line? Everything is connected. Show me one business that is completely fair in all of its connections. Just one, single business that is aware of all its influences, and doesn't ever look the other way.

*sigh*

I don't know much about European influence on 'primitive' economies, but what I do know is scary. My Bountiana research has led me through many books about the old and new Pacific Islands- before and after the many European visits. It's frightening, and the venereals are the least of it. Back then, people thought Science was stepping off the ship, gathering a few necklaces and spears, and showing them off at home. They changed the course of local politics by trading with the first chiefs that came to see them. They used the most convenient currency of iron or symbolic objects until their value dropped so badly, they could no longer barter with anyone. When they could not make a deal or an understanding, they fired their guns. And all the while, the islanders too worked on manipulating the white men, on gaining prestige among their own people through friendship with the gift-giving visitors. It's not to demonise the explorers, but what had to happen happened, and but a few expeditions later, those who returned to England spoke of how the happy paradise had been sullied by European ways. The natives had started wearing clothes...soon, they were colonised, and instantly as poor as they had been rich. Their currency and laws had no value in the new world.

You know how they always have issues with the Prime Directive on Star Trek?

I guess I'm just one person. I can buy local, I can stay away from large shopping centres and try to help the smaller shops. But I will be happy to see big supermarkets open, because I see so many unemployed people around the city. And the orphanages, surely they buy the cheapest t-shirts, because they can't afford to worry about sweatshop children far away. And...

I'll keep my eyes open, anyway.
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MithLuin
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Post by MithLuin »

<Raises hand>

One year of history in high school was global studies, and since geography was a hobby of mine, I learned a lot from my grandfather about it. I knew that Timbuktu was the capital of Mali (and of course, still is in Mali, though now it's in the Sahara), and I knew it was a century of wealth and learning during the Middle Ages.

Of course, your average American knows very little geography, and would struggle to find Mali on a map of modern Africa.

Rodia - you do what you can. None of us, alone, will change the world. But the world will not change if none of us try.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Actually, the capital city of the Mali Empire was a city called Niana (also spelt Nyana) which no longer exists, but was located in what is now the Northeastern part of Guinea, near the border with modern Mali (very close to the birthplace of my teacher Mamady Keita, who as I have said before is a descendent of Sundiata Keita, the founder of the Mali Empire). But Timbuktu was certainly the cultural and intellectual center of the empire.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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