Quan Yin, Boddhisattva of Compassion
Quan Yin, Boddhisattva of Compassion
My avatar is one of the many depictions of Quan Yin, the Boddhisattva of Compassion. She is usually depicted as female, except among Tibetan Buddhist who depict Compassion as a male named Avalokitesvara. Some believe that the Dalai Lama is his current incarnation.
Some descriptions of Quan Yin refer to her as a goddess, but this misses the mark. “Boddhisattva” means “enlightened being.” These are beings who achieved enlightenment during a lifetime but chose not to enter Nirvana, staying rather within the cycles of the world to assist other beings in their struggle for enlightenment. There are said to be 33 boddhisattvas; and the sutras claim that Quan Yin has been reincarnated 357 times.
The boddhisattva path is described in this verse by Santideva, an 8th century devotee:
“For as long as space endures
And for as long as living beings remain,
Until then may I too abide
To dispel the misery of the world.”
Quan Yin in particular is said to have taken a vow to relieve the suffering of all sentient beings; and her devotees take a similar vow not to leave the confines of the world for Nirvana until all sentient beings are able to achieve Nirvana themselves.
The mantra of Quan Yin is “Om Mani Padme Hum” - “hail to the jewel in the lotus” - believed by Tibetan Buddhist to have been spoken by Avalokitesvara (Quan Yin) at the moment of his (her) birth and to be the most perfect of all sound combinations.
Each boddhisattva is associated with a characteristic virtue. The virtue associated with Quan Yin is “listening.” Her full name (in Chinese), Quan Shih Yin, means “the one who pays attention to the sounds of the world.”
In the depiction that I chose for my avatar, she holds in her right hand a small vase from which she pours a stream of healing water on to the earth. With her left hand she makes the “yoni mudra” symbolizing the womb through which we enter the material world. She stands upon a dragon (or sea serpent), which is how she appears to sailors in distress. It is hard to see in the picture, but the small figure at the center of her crown is an image of the Buddha.
In other pictures she may be shown holding pearls to represent enlightenment, a sheaf of rice or a rice bowl to represent fertility, or having many arms with an eye in the palm of each hand to represent a mother’s awareness of the sufferings endured by her children.
She is the special protectress of sailors and merchants, those awaiting prosecution, and those hoping to bear children.
It was during the T’ang Dynasty (7th ce) that she achieved her current position of prominence in Chinese Buddhism as one of the two most important boddhisattvas.
_________
I have an odd little story to tell about Quan Yin. I only became aware of her existence perhaps four years ago, but the moment I read of her vow and the vow taken by her devotees I had a flash of something like ‘genetic memory’ and began to wonder seriously about reincarnation.
From the time I was very young ... like six years old ... I have had a recurring dream in which I am bidding goodbye to a group of family members or close friends who are leaving Earth forever.
The dream always begins with my searching for these people, and as I find each of them, bringing them to one place to make sure they won’t get lost. It is only when all are gathered in that one place that I realize I have gathered them so that they can depart together, and that this departure will be a permanent separation from me.
Departure from Earth is something very desirable in the dream and they beg me to come with them. I want to depart with them. I do not want to be separated from them and I too wish to leave the Earth. But I also understand that it is not permissible for me to leave.
The dream always ends the same way. In the place where we are gathered there is always a window or a door. As the realization comes to me that I alone am not permitted to leave, I look out to the outside and there appears a profusion of all the animals and plants on Earth. And when I see all this profusion of creatures I realize that it is because of them that I am not permitted to leave.
That is the point at which the dream ends and I always awake at the end of it so it is very fresh in my mind.
This dream disturbed me for decades because I could not make sense of it's meaning. It obviously expresses separation anxiety (!), and I have had many dreams where, for example, I’m looking for my children and can’t find them or I misplaced my mother (or my homework! or my lecture notes!). But this particular dream has a different quality to it, and it always contains those elements which do not, I think, belong to typical anxiety dreams - that the people are not just leaving but leaving earth, and all the plants and animals who remain on earth are the reason that I too must stay. The life that remains on earth is always exquisitely vivid in the dream.
By now you can probably see the parallel. This dream makes perfect sense as the expression of a boddhisattva vow. Because I started having this dream at such an early age and long, long before I knew anything about Buddhism or the boddhisattva path or Quan Yin as the epitome of that path ... I am wondering now if it is not the memory of a vow taken in a previous lifetime.
I can assure you that I have not achieved enlightenment in this life or any other - all I might hope to have done is to have aspired to such a thing as a Buddhist devotee and, perhaps, to have taken the vow that is taken by those who aspire to the path of Quan Yin.
More than that I really can’t say, except that when I read about the boddhisattvas for the first time, these dreams came back to me immediately and with a tremendous sense of relief. I felt them to be ‘explained’ even though I have no specific belief in reincarnation.
So ... there's a little oddity for your consideration.
Jn
Some descriptions of Quan Yin refer to her as a goddess, but this misses the mark. “Boddhisattva” means “enlightened being.” These are beings who achieved enlightenment during a lifetime but chose not to enter Nirvana, staying rather within the cycles of the world to assist other beings in their struggle for enlightenment. There are said to be 33 boddhisattvas; and the sutras claim that Quan Yin has been reincarnated 357 times.
The boddhisattva path is described in this verse by Santideva, an 8th century devotee:
“For as long as space endures
And for as long as living beings remain,
Until then may I too abide
To dispel the misery of the world.”
Quan Yin in particular is said to have taken a vow to relieve the suffering of all sentient beings; and her devotees take a similar vow not to leave the confines of the world for Nirvana until all sentient beings are able to achieve Nirvana themselves.
The mantra of Quan Yin is “Om Mani Padme Hum” - “hail to the jewel in the lotus” - believed by Tibetan Buddhist to have been spoken by Avalokitesvara (Quan Yin) at the moment of his (her) birth and to be the most perfect of all sound combinations.
Each boddhisattva is associated with a characteristic virtue. The virtue associated with Quan Yin is “listening.” Her full name (in Chinese), Quan Shih Yin, means “the one who pays attention to the sounds of the world.”
In the depiction that I chose for my avatar, she holds in her right hand a small vase from which she pours a stream of healing water on to the earth. With her left hand she makes the “yoni mudra” symbolizing the womb through which we enter the material world. She stands upon a dragon (or sea serpent), which is how she appears to sailors in distress. It is hard to see in the picture, but the small figure at the center of her crown is an image of the Buddha.
In other pictures she may be shown holding pearls to represent enlightenment, a sheaf of rice or a rice bowl to represent fertility, or having many arms with an eye in the palm of each hand to represent a mother’s awareness of the sufferings endured by her children.
She is the special protectress of sailors and merchants, those awaiting prosecution, and those hoping to bear children.
It was during the T’ang Dynasty (7th ce) that she achieved her current position of prominence in Chinese Buddhism as one of the two most important boddhisattvas.
_________
I have an odd little story to tell about Quan Yin. I only became aware of her existence perhaps four years ago, but the moment I read of her vow and the vow taken by her devotees I had a flash of something like ‘genetic memory’ and began to wonder seriously about reincarnation.
From the time I was very young ... like six years old ... I have had a recurring dream in which I am bidding goodbye to a group of family members or close friends who are leaving Earth forever.
The dream always begins with my searching for these people, and as I find each of them, bringing them to one place to make sure they won’t get lost. It is only when all are gathered in that one place that I realize I have gathered them so that they can depart together, and that this departure will be a permanent separation from me.
Departure from Earth is something very desirable in the dream and they beg me to come with them. I want to depart with them. I do not want to be separated from them and I too wish to leave the Earth. But I also understand that it is not permissible for me to leave.
The dream always ends the same way. In the place where we are gathered there is always a window or a door. As the realization comes to me that I alone am not permitted to leave, I look out to the outside and there appears a profusion of all the animals and plants on Earth. And when I see all this profusion of creatures I realize that it is because of them that I am not permitted to leave.
That is the point at which the dream ends and I always awake at the end of it so it is very fresh in my mind.
This dream disturbed me for decades because I could not make sense of it's meaning. It obviously expresses separation anxiety (!), and I have had many dreams where, for example, I’m looking for my children and can’t find them or I misplaced my mother (or my homework! or my lecture notes!). But this particular dream has a different quality to it, and it always contains those elements which do not, I think, belong to typical anxiety dreams - that the people are not just leaving but leaving earth, and all the plants and animals who remain on earth are the reason that I too must stay. The life that remains on earth is always exquisitely vivid in the dream.
By now you can probably see the parallel. This dream makes perfect sense as the expression of a boddhisattva vow. Because I started having this dream at such an early age and long, long before I knew anything about Buddhism or the boddhisattva path or Quan Yin as the epitome of that path ... I am wondering now if it is not the memory of a vow taken in a previous lifetime.
I can assure you that I have not achieved enlightenment in this life or any other - all I might hope to have done is to have aspired to such a thing as a Buddhist devotee and, perhaps, to have taken the vow that is taken by those who aspire to the path of Quan Yin.
More than that I really can’t say, except that when I read about the boddhisattvas for the first time, these dreams came back to me immediately and with a tremendous sense of relief. I felt them to be ‘explained’ even though I have no specific belief in reincarnation.
So ... there's a little oddity for your consideration.
Jn
A fool's paradise is a wise man's hell.
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I think there is much to be learned from Buddhism and other Eastern religions.
My late mother loved the Dalai Lama; she felt that he was a simple holy man. I feel the same and am forever donating to causes to "Free Tibet."
I don't believe in reincarnation as such, but I think your dream is very cool...and hey, who knows?
My late mother loved the Dalai Lama; she felt that he was a simple holy man. I feel the same and am forever donating to causes to "Free Tibet."
I don't believe in reincarnation as such, but I think your dream is very cool...and hey, who knows?
"Live! Live! Live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!" - Auntie Mame
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Jnyusa, I'm very moved by your dream. I wear that mantra (om mani padme hum) on a necklace around my neck in memory of my mother, whose mantra it was.
It's almost uncanny for me to see your post here today, because I just got back from a Quaker meeting where the chief thread turned out to be compassion, and even before the meeting, I had awakened with the strangest feeling that love or compassion was the answer to my own feeling of being terribly, awfully stuck. It came as a kind of gentle command: love them. So when I sat down in meeting today, my first thoughts were a kind of prayer that this turn in my heart, this "conversion," could stick.
Anyway, you sharing your dream seems a very bodhisattva like thing to have done, at least for me today. It really helps! Thank you.
edit: now you've inspired me to change my avatar, as you'll see!
It's almost uncanny for me to see your post here today, because I just got back from a Quaker meeting where the chief thread turned out to be compassion, and even before the meeting, I had awakened with the strangest feeling that love or compassion was the answer to my own feeling of being terribly, awfully stuck. It came as a kind of gentle command: love them. So when I sat down in meeting today, my first thoughts were a kind of prayer that this turn in my heart, this "conversion," could stick.
Anyway, you sharing your dream seems a very bodhisattva like thing to have done, at least for me today. It really helps! Thank you.
edit: now you've inspired me to change my avatar, as you'll see!
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What an intriguing story, Jn.
How have you reconciled the possibility of reincarnation within the structure (strictures?) of western thought? Or have you?
I'd like to explore this if we can because I'm drawn to the Buddhist idea of rebirth and yet contrarily, hold to no religious belief.
I mentioned somewhere, in a comment upon your avatar, how years ago when I lived in San Francisco I could often be found at the de Young museum collection of Asian art ... standing, mesmerised before an almost life-size Kuan-Yin. I spent hours in something like ecstasy watching the sculpture breath. And I do mean breath.
I've searched the web for a picture of that sculpture but can't find the exact piece. Instead, I'll post this one ... which is in a similar pose and is also 10c Tang dynasty ... but beautiful as it is ... it seems ... less vibrant, less present, less alive.
hope it doesn't stretch the page.
How have you reconciled the possibility of reincarnation within the structure (strictures?) of western thought? Or have you?
I'd like to explore this if we can because I'm drawn to the Buddhist idea of rebirth and yet contrarily, hold to no religious belief.
I mentioned somewhere, in a comment upon your avatar, how years ago when I lived in San Francisco I could often be found at the de Young museum collection of Asian art ... standing, mesmerised before an almost life-size Kuan-Yin. I spent hours in something like ecstasy watching the sculpture breath. And I do mean breath.
I've searched the web for a picture of that sculpture but can't find the exact piece. Instead, I'll post this one ... which is in a similar pose and is also 10c Tang dynasty ... but beautiful as it is ... it seems ... less vibrant, less present, less alive.
hope it doesn't stretch the page.
Ever mindful of the maxim that brevity is the soul of wit, axordil sums up the Sil:
"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."
Yes.
<relieved and honored that everyone took this seriously>
Teremia - how wonderful that the story fit with your experience today! It has also happened to me that I will find just the rights words in a totally unexpected place, and it always feel like a little touch of the divine when this happens. The giver of the words does not even have to be aware ... we 'cast our bread upon the water' and who knows who will find it and be nourished. That is why words are very important to me, and the one failing over which I always feel the most remorse is having spoken sharply when a moment's reflection would probably have revealed a better way to communicate.
Yes - I see your new avatar! I love Sanskrit (and Arabic, too) because the letters themselves are a kind of artwork.
A friend of my daughter's had the Sanskrit 'om mani padme hum' tattooed on the small of his back, as a piece of art, you know. He is not religious. This struck me as ... blasphemous. I tried to imagine having the shema - the Jewish prayer of faith - tattooed on my body and I think I would sooner jump off a cliff. But you never know ... someone may see it and ask what it is and that will be the beginning of the path to enlightenment for them.
At the bottom of one website devoted to Quan Yin was a link, with the instructions, "Click here for Enlightenment."
Oh how tempting that was!
Did your mother practice Buddhism?
We have a small temple in my neighborhood which I have attended once, because several friends are members. It was a Mahayana community, but they merged with a Shamabala community to achieve critical mass and adoped many of the rituals of the Shambala community. I found the service too liturgical for my taste ... sounds funny coming from a Jew, but I was seeking an alternate place to worship (for complicated reasons) and much of the point was to get away from empty ritual. Yet people seem to need to go through motions of some kind, and communities tend to evolve towards more ritual over time rather than less. That has been my experience anyway.
Sass - compared to Christianity and Islam, Judaism contains very little "dogma." There are not required beliefs about an afterlife, not even the existence of one. So reincarnation is not incompatible with Judaism and some rabbis have endorsed it as a legitimate belief.
I think the only reason I don't have specific beliefs about reincarnation is because I didn't grow up learning to believe in this. It seems to me just as likely as anything else that has been proposed, and has the advantage of comforming more to what we see around us in the material world than the idea of some separate bodiless existence somewhere as yet unknown.
The Taoist conception of Nirvana is a state in which one is able to move between matter and enery at will. This strikes me as ... quite possible. Even probable. I think that the separation of body and spirit that has become so central to Western thought is ... mistaken.
There, I've said it.
That is a gorgeous statue! I see what must be the impression of the Buddha on her headpiece, but from what I've read, it must be unusual to depict her hands at rest like that, not holding any devotional objects or forming a mudra.
It is a lovely, casual pose, perhaps to emphasize the one aspect of this boddhisattva that is especially identified with her: accessibility. It is said that one need only call out her name with sincerity and miracles will be performed.
Jn
Teremia - how wonderful that the story fit with your experience today! It has also happened to me that I will find just the rights words in a totally unexpected place, and it always feel like a little touch of the divine when this happens. The giver of the words does not even have to be aware ... we 'cast our bread upon the water' and who knows who will find it and be nourished. That is why words are very important to me, and the one failing over which I always feel the most remorse is having spoken sharply when a moment's reflection would probably have revealed a better way to communicate.
Yes - I see your new avatar! I love Sanskrit (and Arabic, too) because the letters themselves are a kind of artwork.
A friend of my daughter's had the Sanskrit 'om mani padme hum' tattooed on the small of his back, as a piece of art, you know. He is not religious. This struck me as ... blasphemous. I tried to imagine having the shema - the Jewish prayer of faith - tattooed on my body and I think I would sooner jump off a cliff. But you never know ... someone may see it and ask what it is and that will be the beginning of the path to enlightenment for them.
At the bottom of one website devoted to Quan Yin was a link, with the instructions, "Click here for Enlightenment."
Oh how tempting that was!
Did your mother practice Buddhism?
We have a small temple in my neighborhood which I have attended once, because several friends are members. It was a Mahayana community, but they merged with a Shamabala community to achieve critical mass and adoped many of the rituals of the Shambala community. I found the service too liturgical for my taste ... sounds funny coming from a Jew, but I was seeking an alternate place to worship (for complicated reasons) and much of the point was to get away from empty ritual. Yet people seem to need to go through motions of some kind, and communities tend to evolve towards more ritual over time rather than less. That has been my experience anyway.
Sass - compared to Christianity and Islam, Judaism contains very little "dogma." There are not required beliefs about an afterlife, not even the existence of one. So reincarnation is not incompatible with Judaism and some rabbis have endorsed it as a legitimate belief.
I think the only reason I don't have specific beliefs about reincarnation is because I didn't grow up learning to believe in this. It seems to me just as likely as anything else that has been proposed, and has the advantage of comforming more to what we see around us in the material world than the idea of some separate bodiless existence somewhere as yet unknown.
The Taoist conception of Nirvana is a state in which one is able to move between matter and enery at will. This strikes me as ... quite possible. Even probable. I think that the separation of body and spirit that has become so central to Western thought is ... mistaken.
There, I've said it.
That is a gorgeous statue! I see what must be the impression of the Buddha on her headpiece, but from what I've read, it must be unusual to depict her hands at rest like that, not holding any devotional objects or forming a mudra.
It is a lovely, casual pose, perhaps to emphasize the one aspect of this boddhisattva that is especially identified with her: accessibility. It is said that one need only call out her name with sincerity and miracles will be performed.
Jn
A fool's paradise is a wise man's hell.
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Very interesting thread, Jny.
I agree that the separation of body and spirit has been overemphasized in Western thought. Unfortunately, that has been particularly true of Christianity, although I believe that the problem stems from misinterpretation (well, an interpretation different than mine ). I read Scripture as saying that matter is essentially good, and that there is an intimate connection -- possibly with no true separation at all -- between matter and spirit. Sacraments use matter but speak of spiritual things, not just as symbols but as a mysterious bridge between worlds.
St. Paul wrote a lot about the struggle between flesh and spirit, but I read that more as shorthand for the struggle between self-will and the willingness to yield to a spiritual path.
I do not speak for all of Christianity, of course! My views are sometimes considered peculiar to everyone but me.
I'm agnostic on reincarnation -- I really have no idea if it's true or not. I'm puzzled by the fact that some individuals are so intensely drawn to a particular culture or time period. Could they be remembering, perhaps unconsciously, bits and pieces of another life? Seems somewhat likely.
Why, then, do I remember nothing of previous lives? Could have something to do with the fact that I can't remember what I did last week, much less before I was born (this time).
Edit to take out extraneous word.
I agree that the separation of body and spirit has been overemphasized in Western thought. Unfortunately, that has been particularly true of Christianity, although I believe that the problem stems from misinterpretation (well, an interpretation different than mine ). I read Scripture as saying that matter is essentially good, and that there is an intimate connection -- possibly with no true separation at all -- between matter and spirit. Sacraments use matter but speak of spiritual things, not just as symbols but as a mysterious bridge between worlds.
St. Paul wrote a lot about the struggle between flesh and spirit, but I read that more as shorthand for the struggle between self-will and the willingness to yield to a spiritual path.
I do not speak for all of Christianity, of course! My views are sometimes considered peculiar to everyone but me.
I'm agnostic on reincarnation -- I really have no idea if it's true or not. I'm puzzled by the fact that some individuals are so intensely drawn to a particular culture or time period. Could they be remembering, perhaps unconsciously, bits and pieces of another life? Seems somewhat likely.
Why, then, do I remember nothing of previous lives? Could have something to do with the fact that I can't remember what I did last week, much less before I was born (this time).
Edit to take out extraneous word.
Wampuscat: Why, then, do I remember nothing of previous lives?
LOL, that's why I remain largely agnostic, too. It doesn't seem to help much that reincarnation might be true if we can't remember our mistakes from the last time around. I have no conscious recollection of anything before my second year of this lifetime.
Jn
LOL, that's why I remain largely agnostic, too. It doesn't seem to help much that reincarnation might be true if we can't remember our mistakes from the last time around. I have no conscious recollection of anything before my second year of this lifetime.
Jn
A fool's paradise is a wise man's hell.
jnyusa, I once asked my neighbour about that, why we can't remember our past lives and her answer was: "Why, that would make things too easy." And she looked at me with this look.
You said: "Yet people seem to need to go through motions of some kind, and communities tend to evolve towards more ritual over time rather than less. That has been my experience anyway."
That's very true. I think that ritual serves its own purpose, of course, by creating a "sameness" or "reliability" of custom and atmosphere, maybe like shorthand, or a mnemonic? Like a rosary. We need that feeling of familiarity, of connectedness, of being a "part" of something.
Then, often enough, the ritual becomes more important than the reason it was created, and there is a need for renewal.
You said: "Yet people seem to need to go through motions of some kind, and communities tend to evolve towards more ritual over time rather than less. That has been my experience anyway."
That's very true. I think that ritual serves its own purpose, of course, by creating a "sameness" or "reliability" of custom and atmosphere, maybe like shorthand, or a mnemonic? Like a rosary. We need that feeling of familiarity, of connectedness, of being a "part" of something.
Then, often enough, the ritual becomes more important than the reason it was created, and there is a need for renewal.
Dig deeper.
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Oh, Jny..........so much for me to think about and attempt to express. I have a feeling this thread might be one of those that keeps getting bumped as new ideas and memories and WORDS are found to add to the discussion.
First of all, when we were travelling through Asia, it became very apparent how loved Quan-Yin is.......how important she is in the everyday lives of people. Her shrines were always the busiest and most vibrant in any town or city, and we could read the importance of each worshipper's offering of incense or flowers or fruit through the delicate reverence of their actions, the look upon their faces as they stood before her image. I remember watching one fragile old man, standing before her statue, carefully positioning his hands and head to mirror exactly her pose.
Secondly, what an astonishingly profound dream........and to think that you have been experiencing it since such a young age. There is truth to be found in it, I'm sure of that.
I rather like an interpretation that I heard of a Taoist sense of "past" lives and memories when I was on a retreat a few years ago. The monk, who was speaking through an interpreter, said that because Tao is infinite, beyond Time, we can look at this "reality" that we are now physically present in as being linked to all our possible pasts and futures, which are also fully developed realities for us in other times and places. He described a "moment of our lives", as I recall, as being at a specific point on a specific line of a vast, ever-revolving three-dimensional grid, with seemingly endless intersections before, behind, above and below us (these terms seem so lacking, somehow). At times, we feel more connected to a past or future reality because for a moment, we are at a point of experience that intersects with another point of experience, and suddenly, we are present in both at the same time. We transcend Time and Space and experience "ourselves" more fully than is possible within the confines of a singular reality.
I think I have only experienced this three times in my waking life. Once, sitting on the grass of a little postage stamp of a garden behind a tiny inn on the shores of the Aegean. Another time, travelling by train in Japan, as I was gazing at an imposing statue of Quan Yin (or "Kannon" in Japanese) carved into the living rock of a cliff that rose above a forest of bamboo. And finally, when I stepped, for the first time, upon the broad, smooth stone that stands above even the highest tide in our little cove . Each time, the experience had no real cognitive quality, that is, there was no "thought" involved. It was more like the most overwhelmingly compelling feeling that I "knew" that place, knew it down to my very bones; I understood its meaning, recognized myself as part of its past (or future???), knew, somehow, that I was present in the same place at different moments. It was a feeling of completeness and strangely enough, perfect clarity, even though no words were formed within my thought that could describe it. I still can't describe it. Not really. But when I heard the translation of the monk's words, each of those moments just kind of rushed back at me.
I've never spoken about this to anyone other than my husband and my brother (who actually gave me my very first copy of the Tao Te Ching long ago). Thank-you, Jnyusa and Voronwë, for giving me, and others, such a safe and supportive place to reflect upon these kind of profound, yet very personal, mysteries.
First of all, when we were travelling through Asia, it became very apparent how loved Quan-Yin is.......how important she is in the everyday lives of people. Her shrines were always the busiest and most vibrant in any town or city, and we could read the importance of each worshipper's offering of incense or flowers or fruit through the delicate reverence of their actions, the look upon their faces as they stood before her image. I remember watching one fragile old man, standing before her statue, carefully positioning his hands and head to mirror exactly her pose.
Secondly, what an astonishingly profound dream........and to think that you have been experiencing it since such a young age. There is truth to be found in it, I'm sure of that.
I rather like an interpretation that I heard of a Taoist sense of "past" lives and memories when I was on a retreat a few years ago. The monk, who was speaking through an interpreter, said that because Tao is infinite, beyond Time, we can look at this "reality" that we are now physically present in as being linked to all our possible pasts and futures, which are also fully developed realities for us in other times and places. He described a "moment of our lives", as I recall, as being at a specific point on a specific line of a vast, ever-revolving three-dimensional grid, with seemingly endless intersections before, behind, above and below us (these terms seem so lacking, somehow). At times, we feel more connected to a past or future reality because for a moment, we are at a point of experience that intersects with another point of experience, and suddenly, we are present in both at the same time. We transcend Time and Space and experience "ourselves" more fully than is possible within the confines of a singular reality.
I think I have only experienced this three times in my waking life. Once, sitting on the grass of a little postage stamp of a garden behind a tiny inn on the shores of the Aegean. Another time, travelling by train in Japan, as I was gazing at an imposing statue of Quan Yin (or "Kannon" in Japanese) carved into the living rock of a cliff that rose above a forest of bamboo. And finally, when I stepped, for the first time, upon the broad, smooth stone that stands above even the highest tide in our little cove . Each time, the experience had no real cognitive quality, that is, there was no "thought" involved. It was more like the most overwhelmingly compelling feeling that I "knew" that place, knew it down to my very bones; I understood its meaning, recognized myself as part of its past (or future???), knew, somehow, that I was present in the same place at different moments. It was a feeling of completeness and strangely enough, perfect clarity, even though no words were formed within my thought that could describe it. I still can't describe it. Not really. But when I heard the translation of the monk's words, each of those moments just kind of rushed back at me.
I've never spoken about this to anyone other than my husband and my brother (who actually gave me my very first copy of the Tao Te Ching long ago). Thank-you, Jnyusa and Voronwë, for giving me, and others, such a safe and supportive place to reflect upon these kind of profound, yet very personal, mysteries.
Who could be so lucky? Who comes to a lake for water and sees the reflection of moon.
Jalal ad-Din Rumi
vison - I know that look! Like you, I always seem to find myself on the receiving end of it.
Athrabeth
Thank you so much for sharing that!
Places we somehow know ... yes, I felt that when I visited a town in the mountains of Nicaragua on my first trip there ... but the knowledge was terribly specific. I knew what we would find on every street and was able to give exact directions to the driver. It was like returning to a place I had grown up in even though I'd never been there before. Very disorienting experience ... but a rather long story and I will have to save it for tomorrow.
I am so glad to hear you confirm that Quan Yin is so beloved. Everything I've read has attested to that, but I don't completely trust internet information when I'm not familiar with the sources.
Jn
Athrabeth
Thank you so much for sharing that!
Places we somehow know ... yes, I felt that when I visited a town in the mountains of Nicaragua on my first trip there ... but the knowledge was terribly specific. I knew what we would find on every street and was able to give exact directions to the driver. It was like returning to a place I had grown up in even though I'd never been there before. Very disorienting experience ... but a rather long story and I will have to save it for tomorrow.
I am so glad to hear you confirm that Quan Yin is so beloved. Everything I've read has attested to that, but I don't completely trust internet information when I'm not familiar with the sources.
Jn
A fool's paradise is a wise man's hell.
- IdylleSeethes
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Well, I still miss Wonder Woman.
I felt it was important to let my children come to their own conclusions about religion. I did not have them baptized, which was scandalous at the time. I exposed them to as many as I could. For several years, my daughter has been leaning towards Buddhism. She went through an "induction" ceremony a month ago and is now officially Buddhist. I am hoping that she will try to explain what triggered her decision when I see her at Christmas. I have always approached Buddhism from a philosophical position and I will be interested in the organizational structure too.
I felt it was important to let my children come to their own conclusions about religion. I did not have them baptized, which was scandalous at the time. I exposed them to as many as I could. For several years, my daughter has been leaning towards Buddhism. She went through an "induction" ceremony a month ago and is now officially Buddhist. I am hoping that she will try to explain what triggered her decision when I see her at Christmas. I have always approached Buddhism from a philosophical position and I will be interested in the organizational structure too.
- WampusCat
- Creature of the night
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<faints>Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:Wampuskitty, I don't find your views peculiar at all.
vison, I think you are right that ritual feeds our need for "familiarity, of connectedness, of being a 'part' of something." And probably that's how most believers experience it: as a concrete, unchangeable, defined "going through the motions."
I would add that ritual can also be a gateway to mystery. That is what it has been to me.
I grew up in a non-liturgical church but had an innate, intense desire for liturgy -- hmmm...previous life as a monk? Certainly no one else in my family had that desire. After college, I attended a Catholic church for years without ever becoming Catholic. I would just sit there and drink in the ritual.
You might think the ritual would be confining and dull. But that's not how it felt to me. It transported me somehow into a place where questions mattered more than answers, where sensing a Presence mattered more than dogma. I can't explain it, really.
Athrabeth, I love the Taoist interpretation you described so well. Thank you! I can almost see the revolving grid, with the endlessly moving, sometimes intersecting lines. Magnificent! In my mental picture, when the points intersect they glow brighter and give off sparks.
Thanks, too, for sharing your moments of transcendence. I have had that sense of knowing without thought, with perfect clarity. In my experiences, though, it was not so much a feeling that I had been there before. It was more a feeling of seeing for the first time, of opening to something vast and beautiful, of being a part of it all, without boundaries.
- JewelSong
- Just Keep Singin'
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St. Paul had issues, IMHO!WampusCat wrote:St. Paul wrote a lot about the struggle between flesh and spirit, but I read that more as shorthand for the struggle between self-will and the willingness to yield to a spiritual path.
Seriously, I think Jesus' teachings, in their original form, were likely closer to the mystic than is acknowledged now. Jesus seems to me to be to be a true Mystic, an Adept, if you will and certainly very close to the Holy One; whether you believe him to actually be the One himself or not.
I feel that when you are fortunate enough to be in the presence of someone who is close to...well, The Center (for lack of a better term) it is blindingly obvious. And what that person's particular beliefs are is moot...it is where they are, not what they believe that matters.
*wonders if she is making sense*
*loves this thread*
ETA: IdylleSeethes, it is very possible to be both a practicing Buddhist and a Christian - the two beliefs are not counter-indicative.
"Live! Live! Live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!" - Auntie Mame
- WampusCat
- Creature of the night
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Jewel, I agree with every word you said.
Especially this:
Especially this:
Have you read Thomas Kelley's "A Testament of Devotion"? He speaks of the Center in ways that made me ache to be there. If it's not veering too off-topic, I'll dig up my favorite quote from that book and post it later. (Jny, please let me know if this thread is going too far afield from your original post on Quan Yin. I'll edit my remarks or start another thread.)JewelSong wrote:I feel that when you are fortunate enough to be in the presence of someone who is close to...well, The Center (for lack of a better term) it is blindingly obvious. And what that person's particular beliefs are is moot...it is where they are, not what they believe that matters.
It seems to me a rather wonderful thing that there really are -- in this pedestrian, rational world -- people through whom some sort of brighter Light passes. In their presence even those of us who are pretty wedded to physical explanations can sometimes feel touched by the sweet breath of Something Else. It has been a real gift in my life that one of my closest friends (now an Episcopalian priest) is like that: around her, spiritual things just make sense. She expects wonder, and somehow she is very often surrounded by it! We have a pact, made years ago, that if one of us is dying, the other will do everything to get there; I know I could manage dying, somehow, if she were there.
Veering to the far end of this spectrum now! My sister-in-law tells a story about being in India, in the town where Tibetan Buddhism has set up its government in exile, and suddenly, unexpectedly, the Dalai Lama came driving up the road. She was watching the Tibetans down the road react, sort of a distant observer as we are in strange places, and then suddenly he caught her eye, and before she knew what she was doing, she was on the ground making the full Tibetan prostrations -- which she had never done before and would have said did not know how to do. His presence was just that powerful and moving.
One of the central Quaker beliefs is that there is divine Light in every one of us, a Light to which we are drawn and to which we must respond. This makes sense to me. I suppose the Dalai Lama burns brighter than most, but that is not to say the rest of us don't also contain that beauty and that brightness.
Veering to the far end of this spectrum now! My sister-in-law tells a story about being in India, in the town where Tibetan Buddhism has set up its government in exile, and suddenly, unexpectedly, the Dalai Lama came driving up the road. She was watching the Tibetans down the road react, sort of a distant observer as we are in strange places, and then suddenly he caught her eye, and before she knew what she was doing, she was on the ground making the full Tibetan prostrations -- which she had never done before and would have said did not know how to do. His presence was just that powerful and moving.
One of the central Quaker beliefs is that there is divine Light in every one of us, a Light to which we are drawn and to which we must respond. This makes sense to me. I suppose the Dalai Lama burns brighter than most, but that is not to say the rest of us don't also contain that beauty and that brightness.