Would you be willing to see Mel Gibson's new movie?

[yovargas]

Mel Gibson has a new movie coming out soon, Apocalypto. So far, the reviews have been raving and my interest has been piqued. However, I can't stand the idea of Mel continuing to have a succesful career after his racism was exposed. IE, I don't want to give Mel my money.

Someone elsewhere recently pointed out that Wagner was a blatant bigot but made some classic and important music. I'd have no problem enjoying such a work - I have no problem separating the art from the artist - but I do have a problem supporting such a work with my money. But I also don't want to deny myself a potentially good piece of art because the creator is a bastard. What do you think? What would you do?

[Alatar]

I'd go. Art and Politics should never be linked.

[Inanna]

Mel Gibson a racist??? I didn't even know... what did he say/do?

goes to look it up

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Mahima, he went on an anti-Semitic tirade when he was recently arrested for drunk driving.

Yov, this very question has come up recently in my household. Members of my family have pretty emphatically stated that they will not go see the film. I am torn about it.

I'll say more later.

[Alatar]

In addition, lets be honest. None of us knows whether Gibson is a bigot. I've said some pretty stupid things while drunk, but luckily I don't have the whole world waiting for me to slip up so I can be held up as the Anti-Christ. A lot of powerful people had problems with Mel Gibson, particularly over the Passion of the Christ. I'm sure they were absolutely thrilled to have a shot at him.

[yovargas]

This isn't meant to be specifically about Mel. It's generally about whether you'd be willing to pay for a racist (or some other awful trait) artist's work.


eta:
x-post from b77 (hope you don't mind, Alatar)

I'd see a movie by Hitler if I thought it was worth watching.

I would too. I would see it, but I wouldn't give Hitler money for it. That's what's in question here.

[Jnyusa]

No, I do not patronize artists who are bad for humanity.

Jn

[nerdanel]

I believe that what people say when they are drunk is often a helpful insight into what they actually believe, with the benefit of their inhibitions lowered. I do believe Gibson is anti-Semitic based on his drunk remarks, and for the record, I was not previously convinced of it merely based on the Passion of the Christ (which I did go to see.) I will not see this movie or any further movie by Gibson - or any other person who I know to have uttered prejudiced remarks based on race, ethnicity, or any other similar group membership.

[Primula Baggins]

I agree with Jn.

I'll patronize artists whose politics I disagree with, but not people who degrade other humans, either in their art or elsewhere. And nel is right, in my view, that things don't "come out" when one is drunk if they aren't actually there.

[Alatar]

I dunno. I've said stuff drunk that I've never even thought, never mind believed. Sometimes for effect, sometimes to play devils advocate and sometimes I just spout gibberish.

Perhaps I'm alone in that...

[anthriel]

I think the guy has his problems, and he (and his dad) definitely have problems with religious inclusiveness, shall we say. He has publicly stated that his Protestant wife will go to hell. Interesting marriage that must be.

But I think he got a real reality check when he was quoted as saying those blantantly anti-Jewish things, and it may have been the best thing that ever happened to him. Now he has to face those demons, and it seems (to me) that the guy is trying to deal with his issues. Acknowledging the black spots inside him is the first step, and asking forgiveness is the next. He's done both.

I have no interest in the movie, so I probably won't see it. But it won't be some kind of a statement about Mel Gibson if I don't. Everyone has their closet issues, and everyone can be an idiot... he probably surprised himself with the depth of his feelings.

[The Watcher]

Hmmm.

I am NO fan of Mel Gibson, so I cannot say that only his politics and his personal demeanor are off putting, I just plain do not LIKE him, I think the guy is "off-putting" even when he may be sincere. The guy has some major unresolved personal issues about many things.

"Apocalypto" itself would not be my cup of tea, I have seen the previews and it is FAR too violent, no matter WHAT the message is, that I will wait (if even then) to watch it free on regular network television years from now.

Do his anti-semetic and other racist remarks concern me? Yes, but how many other Hollywood bozos are out there equally as bad? To my way of thinking, the whole place is so self-contained within its own egocentric and whacked out views that very little comes out of there without raising my eyebrows a bit. I suppose it is just as I view nearly everything that comes out of Washington D.C. as equally suspect, although often for different reasons.

[MithLuin]

No, you're not alone, Alatar

I had a conversation with my mother in which she insisted (repeatedly) that she wanted a bazooka for Christmas, so she could use it to blow off my brother's bedroom door to wake him up in the mornings.

This does not mean my mother wants to join the NRA .

Or even that she knows how to shoot a gun....


People really do say stupid stuff when they've had too much to drink, or when they're tired. They don't necessarily know what they are saying.

For instance, I once said (and I quote): "The Titanic didn't sink." When that didn't get the proper response, I followed it up with "I mean, nobody died." What I meant was that the sinking of the Titanic could not be compared to the destruction of the Twin Towers, because the former was an accident, a natural disaster, if you will, while the latter was not. But, I'd had 1.5 hours of sleep, so it didn't come out quite right....


So, yes, it is possible for the drunken tirade to have nothing to do with Gibson's actual opinion of Jewish people. But if you don't say or think racial slurs normally...why would they come to the tip of your tongue when you're drunk? I mean, they could, of course - lot's of people cuss more while drunk. But I don't expect people to believe that. I didn't find the movie (the Passion) anti-Semitic (or at least, no more anti-Semitic than its source material). I also find it hard to believe that someone would have made it as far as he did in the movie industry while being an Anti-Semite. I mean...people notice that But I am not going to assume the best of Gibson just because his movie wasn't tainted. So I certainly understand not wanting to contribute to his new movie.


I would say, wait for Apocolypto(?) to come out on DVD, and then rent it from Blockbuster. That way, you are not patronizing him directly - you're giving your money to Blockbuster (or Netflix, or whatever).

[Túrin Turambar]

I generally avoid films with graphic rape scenes, so I'll probably give this one a miss. If I did want to see it, I probably would. IIRC, Gibson has made an effort following his outburst to improve his views of the Jewish community, and I won't fault someone for simply holding a view that was pushed on them as a child.

[vison]

Not a chance. Not one more penny of mine goes into the pocket of this little anti-Semitic banty rooster. He's a jerk who got by on charm and a modicum of talent, making the same movie over and over and over, although even HE did not quite dare to put himself in the role of Jesus Christ in "The Passion of the Christ". No doubt it has a great deal to do with his miserable upbringing in the house of a religious nutbar, but I truly think Melly made his characters all rather Christ-like, suffering guys because that's how he sees himself.

After he made that movie about William Wallace, I can't recall the name, I thot he'd lost his tiny little mind. Oh, yes. Braveheart.

In vino veritas.

That's what I say, and I stick to it.

[Sassafras]

You know, I still listen to Wagner on occasion.



I doubt I'll see this film despite that I'm fascinated by the historical era but I wont see it for the same reason I skipped "The Passion of the Christ". I just don't like excessive blood, guts, gore and violence.

There were many great artists who were abominable human beings. (Not that I'm putting Gibson in the great catagory) Still, I do think he has some acting talent. I really liked "The Year of Living Dangerously."

[Alatar]

What I said on B77

Even if I abhor the guy, he deserves the profits of his art. Its not for me to judge other people.

To expand on that, I don't actually care if Mel Gibson is evil, a racist and funding Al-Qaeda. If the film is worth watching, I'll see it. If he gets money out of my viewing of his film, thats absolutely fair. I'm judging his film, not his politics, not his beliefs. Its not up to me to judge his personality based on whatever tripe the mass media chooses to publish depending on their mood of the day. And even if I could, it should have no effect on his art.

[yovargas]

If he gets money out of my viewing of his film, thats absolutely fair.

I'm still undecided on this. But, assuming for the sake of this conversation that he's an out and out racist, if America decides to punish that racism by making his new blockbuster a megaflop, that seems fair to me too.

[Alys]

I find myself very torn on this. I find Alatar's arguments persuasive, I really do, but maybe just not enough.

Mel Gibson I'm unsure about, I know that his attitude was suspected well before his recent outburst, so it's not just a case of drunken ramblings, but if the film itself doesn't actively promote bigotry and Mel doesn't himself actively promote hate with his money then why not see it?

Hitler now? Well that's another matter.

[Alatar]

Why is that fair? What right does "America" have to judge anyone?