Books or Movies

For discussion of the upcoming films based on The Hobbit and related material, as well as previous films based on Tolkien's work
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TolkienJRR
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Books or Movies

Post by TolkienJRR »

I remember something like this at the great havens but is this from the movies only?


Pippin- I didn't think it would end this way.
Gandalf- End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. Pippin- What? Gandalf? See what?
Gandalf- White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.
Pippin: Well, that isn't so bad.
Gandalf- No. No, it isn't.”
“I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late.”
-J.R.R Tolkien
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Jude
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Re: Books or Movies

Post by Jude »

Gandalf's description is taken from the narrator's description of Frodo's first impressions of his final journey - you'll find it in the last page of the book.

Obviously, the context is different in the movie, but it was a clever way to get this passage into the film.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Books or Movies

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

The context is more than just different, in my opinion (though I still really love the scene in the film). The filmmakers use the description of Frodo sailing into the West and use it to explicitly describe death. Frodo, of course, does not die when he goes into the West.

In the film that conversation takes place not at the havens but at Minas Tirith at the beginning of the battle when it appeared bleak.
"Among the tales of sorrow there are yet some in which amid weeping there is joy and under the shadow of death light that endures."
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TolkienJRR
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Re: Books or Movies

Post by TolkienJRR »

Thanks. I found it near the end of the grey havens.

It is different very much so, in this case, I like the movie version.
“I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late.”
-J.R.R Tolkien
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Jude
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Re: Books or Movies

Post by Jude »

Incidentally, this passage is one of the two that I know of where Tolkien breaks the illusion of the entire book being a translation of the Red Book of Westmarch. Because at this time Frodo had left the Book and Bag End behind for good, and there is no way that he could have recorded his impressions or told the others about it.

The other passage is in the Barrow-Down: "indeed, though he did not know it, Bilbo (and Gandalf had thought him the best hobbit in the Shire." At least I can rationalize this one away by saying that Bilbo and Gandalf had talked about it to Sam while Frodo lay recovering in Rivendell, and then Sam had later filled in this part of the narrative.
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Re: Books or Movies

Post by kzer_za »

I have seen the critique before that Gandalf is describing Valinor, men have an unknown fate when they die, and Hobbits are technically a branch of men. Meaning that Gandalf's speech is wrong since Pippin would not have seen the far green country.

I think this misses the thematic point, but there is one detail to note just for fun. We know from Beren and Lúthien that at least in some cases, men do temporarily go to the Halls of Mandos after death for a short time before whatever Eru has prepared for them. So actually by the strictest purist standard it can still fit canon. (Maybe Mandos has windows with a view of the white shores, who knows? ;))
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