General Hobbit Movie Info (AVOID IF YOU DON'T WANT SPOILERS)

[Passdagas the Brown]

deals with not only an impending enemy, or the purity of evil, but the relative evil that lurks within the hearts of all mankind.

I continue to be baffled by the tendency of so many (including GDT and GRRM) to claim that Tolkien only dealt in absolute goods and absolute evils. As a Catholic, JRRT certainly believed that there was an "evil that lurks within the hearts of all mankind," and his story about a ring, an instrument of power, that magnifies the evil that lurks within the hearts of all mankind, and leads the protagonist of the story (Frodo Baggins) to choose domination (and I suppose, evil) over his sworn duty, is certainly not a story about absolute good and evil. IMO, I think this comes from the simple fact that most commentators on Tolkien haven't read his books, or as in GRRM's case, simply don't quite understand them. This whole LOTR is "black and white" while GoT is "grey" false dichotomy is an annoyingly shallow narrative that is unfortunately making the rounds more and more with the success of GoT.

[Frelga]

IAWPtB
Besides, this misses the real distinction between the two universes. Tolkien's universe is one where a higher power defines the standard of good and evil, watches over the events, and will step in if the good guys do everything they can. Martin's characters are on their own, as far as I can tell and there is not necessarily any one way things should turn out.

In any case, Del Toronto seems highly complimentary of PJ.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Amazingly complimentary, I thought.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

IAWPtB&F

[Smaug's voice]

I don't see anything in that comment at all that relates
specifically to the Hobbit adaptation.

Neither do I. I only expressed my amusement at del Toro's compliments towards PJ especially because I thought there was a certain silent animosity between the two after he left. (and since I was reluctant to start a thread just for this)

Anyway, IAWPtB&F too.

[Elentári]

This is nice... Quacking Troll has collected and organized all the Jackson M-e movie posters for us...

http://animational.tumblr.com/post/9333 ... -the-rings

[Elentári]

Not sure if this has been posted before..

Character dialog word count in the Hobbit: the Desolation of Smaug

Guess who has the most...

You may or may not be surprised to know that there is less dialogue in DoS than AUJ overall, (6237 and 9132 words respectively.)

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'd be curious to see if anyone has or will do a similar investigation of the book. I would not at all be surprised if the same character was shown to have the most words. After all:

This was Thorin's style. He was an important dwarf. If he had been allowed, he would probably have gone on like this until he was out of breath, without telling any one there anything that was not known already.

You are familiar with Thorin's style on important occasions, so I will not give you any more of it, though he went on a good deal longer than this.

[Beutlin]

Viggo Mortensen on “Lord of the Rings” — and playing an American at last

Another interview with Viggo where he clarifies what he meant with his comments in the Telegraph interview.

It seemed like there probably was a moment for you, after “Lord of the Rings,” where you could have gone in a more movie-star direction, and worked in Hollywood movies for at least a few years. But it doesn’t seem like that would have appealed to you.

I think it has real limitations creatively. I mean, there are people who are really clever at doing both, jumping back and forth. That hasn’t been my fate. I would have liked to have done that in principle, but the thing is, when I say yes, like I said to Hoss, even if it takes two years or three years as was the case here, I stay with it. And most of the time in this business, understandably, you’re trying to pay the rent and help your family or whatever, and think about your career, I suppose. So if you’ve been waiting a year or two years trying to get something made, and then someone comes along and says, “Well, this is financed, it’s got a green light, it’s going next month,” and it’s a good paycheck, then you make your excuses, you say to the person, “I’m sorry, I’ve got to take this.” And most people are pretty understanding about it. But I’m kind of stubborn in that regard, I just stay with it. So I have missed the chance to be in some big things, just because I wasn’t available, because I had committed to something.

You had a little news blip last spring for talking about your sense of the “Lord of the Rings” movies in retrospect, looking back on them. Especially for saying that the second and third movies were grandiose, and that Peter Jackson kind of got lost in them.

I was criticized a lot, because a lot of things were … it wasn’t the entire thing I said.

Was that taken out of context?

No, no, I stand by it. If you’re referring to the Telegraph article … I mean, whenever I’m being interviewed, no matter what I’m talking about, whether it’s books or movies or music, I’m always asked about that. And I’m always positive, because why shouldn’t I be? I owe a lot to it. I mean, I wouldn’t have gotten to do a lot of the things that I’ve done. There’s probably still an effect from “Lord of the Rings,” even though I’ve done other things since, obviously, like the movies with Cronenberg, that have had their own praise. But without “The Lord of the Rings,” without having been picked as one of the actors to be in that hugely successful trilogy, I don’t think that Hoss could have gone to a producer and said, “OK, Viggo’s gonna do it,” and then it’s green-lit, pretty much. That’s the direct effect of that stroke of luck, that Peter Jackson cast me. So I did talk about that, but it’s more interesting to point out …

Well, listen, here’s what I was going to say. I think you were right on the money when you talked about those movies, and I know for certain a lot of other people agree. And I’m somebody who grew up with those books and has watched the movies several times. I’m reading those books to my kids now, which is an immensely moving experience.

It’s incredible writing.

And what I remember most from those movies is the powerful performances, the iconic characters brought to life. You and Ian McKellen and Sean Bean, in particular, and especially in the first film. Other people too, Hugo Weaving and Cate Blanchett.

It was more like the book. It’s truer to the book. There’s something about that more straight-ahead drama, it’s like people really talking to each other.

Sometimes when I watch those movies again and I see, like, the flying dinosaurs and giant battle scenes in the third episode – I mean, it’s fine, the technology is really impressive. It’s spectacular in its way. But it doesn’t have the same effect on me.

It doesn’t stay with you. That being said, the technical accomplishments are amazing. But that is more and more true in the subsequent movies.

This is a weird comparison, but it’s kind of how I feel about Hitchcock’s films. And I’m really glad, by the way, that Hossein Amini didn’t try to do “Two Faces” as a “Hitchcock film.” But it’s like this: The films themselves are great, but the influence on other filmmakers is really complicated. I feel that way about Peter Jackson a little bit. What he accomplished is very impressive, and it also launched this whole universe of $300 million CGI-driven movies that are really mediocre, or a lot worse than that.

Yeah, it becomes top that, top that, top that. Yeah. How much do you need? I think it’s just a question of degree. Just from my own taste, everybody has different … I guess it becomes an entirely different genre, which is OK too. Like slapstick comedy or situation comedy or horror or slasher movies, they’re all different. But the thing that was great, throughout “The Fellowship of the Ring,” especially the long version, the extended version, was that it married the CGI work with the value of Tolkien’s literature and the mythological, historical underpinnings of the story. It was all there. I mean, it made the best use of all the tools at his disposal as a director in that movie, I thought, to my taste. Writing, acting, cinematography, discreet use of CGI, amazing sets, amazing design, locations. I liked the other films too. I’m not saying that. But that one was different.

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/24/viggo_m ... n_at_last/

[Elentári]

Interesting interview with James Nesbitt in Radio Times where he talks about his role as Bofur, and the new projects he's taken on since returning from New Zealand.

Relevant HOBBIT part:

family – he has two daughters, Mary, now 12, and Peggy, 17, – accompanied him Down Under for the bulk of the filming. Peggy even helped her dad write a drinking song for his character Bofur although, in a development that would become emblematic of Nesbitt’s time on The Hobbit, his musical performance didn’t make the version of the film screened in cinemas, only “the extended DVD version”.

He admits that he was far from a fantasy fan beforehand; he hadn’t even seen director Peter Jackson’s previous Tolkien trilogy, The Lord of the Rings. Now, of course, having been inducted into the thespian fellowship of the Ring, he understands the global reach of Middle Earth.

“It’s incredible just the response you get,” he marvels. “That amount of mail you get from all over the world. You forget just how much it means to people.”

But in the first instance, he concedes, it was about taking a punt on what seemed a huge opportunity: a role in a mega-budget, multi-part, block- buster franchise. “Absolutely it’s a leap of faith. You have to think: listen, it is a job. And it’s gonna be a job that lasts forever. But it’s an experience to take your girls to the other side of the world, where they’ll be imbued with a slightly different culture, which will live with them for the rest of their lives. It’s a whole new package. When you look at it that way, it’s the most sensational thing to do.”

But still. For a busy actor whose currency is, in part, his TV “presence”, it was an awful long time, if not off the map then certainly on the edge of it. And for what? As one of a baker’s dozen of dwarves in Peter Jackson’s sprawling cinematic trilogy, Nesbitt was part of an ensemble within an ensemble.

“It was extraordinary,” he reflects. “The experience of entering Tolkien’s 3D-enhanced world was incredible, and there will only ever be 13 dwarves in The Hobbit – and I was one of them. If I had my time again, would I do it? Yeah, I would.

“But – and I don’t think they would mind me saying this – at times it was frustrating. Just in terms of the acting, in terms of what you were given the opportunity to do.”

Coincidentally, Ken Stott, who is also in The Missing, was another of the dwarves, “And I think Ken would have found that at times frustrating as well. So, yes, we often looked at each other during The Missing and went, ‘it’s bit different, eh?’” he recounts with a wry chuckle.

Yet there were other, more personal challenges, too. “We filmed a lot of the end just after I’d lost my mum. She died in summer 2012 when I was in New Zealand. So I flew home for the funeral, then went back to film the end.

“And people who’ve read the book will know that it’s not all a happy ending for everyone. So that was quite interesting, coming back and doing scenes that involved the aftermath of people close to you dying.”

Having interviewed Nesbitt before, and enjoyed his company, as well as the impressive range of his onscreen work – movie-wise, it ranges from Paul Greengrass’s political drama Bloody Sunday in 2002 at one extreme to Danny Boyle’s charming comedy-drama Millions (2004) at the other – I tell him I was frustrated he didn’t appear more in the two Hobbit films released so far.

“No, I know,” he shrugs. “I thought I was gonna be. But that was one of the difficulties – there wasn’t a script per se before we agreed to it. But then there are an awful lot of people to keep happy. But in Three,” he adds, referring to December’s final chapter, which is sub-titled The Battle of the Five Armies, “I think there’s a lot more for everyone to do. And my kids are in it – they play Bard the Bowman’s daughters. They’ve got nice parts.”

Have they got more screen time than dad? “Not far off it, actually,” he smiles ruefully. Still, “after you do something like The Hobbit for such a long time, and you’re away for a long time, you can’t help but think: ‘Oh God, it’s gonna be really hard to reconnect when I get home, and maybe my time has passed...’ So when I came back I was just looking for something that was meaty.”

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Some interesting thoughts about the depiction of Thranduil in the films from Michael Martinez:

http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2014/11/ ... -the-book/

[Elentári]

Neat article/interviews in the NZ Herald: The Wild World of The Hobbit

Dominic Corry talks to three of the greats who helped make The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies come to life. Dan Hennah, Richard Taylor and Gino Acevedo...

[Elentári]

On-set interview with Lee Pace - no spoilers, just a great guy!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

And one with another great guy: http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2014/11 ... -last-day/

[Passdagas the Brown]

McKellen:

"There's been less traveling around. There's been less stuff on location."

IMO, one of the fundamental problems with this series of films.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

As you have said, one or two (hundred) times before.

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Sent from my LG G3 using tapatalk

[kzer_za]

Some interesting thoughts about the depiction of Thranduil in the films from Michael Martinez:

http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2014/11/ ... -the-book/

I disagree with a lot of this:

The cinematic Thranduil is thus more interesting to the audience: he is meddling in his son’s romantic life and he seems to be an unreliable ally in war. But Peter Jackson’s Thranduil may also be following in the footsteps of the irrational Elf-Dwarf hatred he introduced into “The Lord of the Rings” (there is nothing like this in Tolkien’s stories). Tolkien’s elves and dwarves don’t hate each other; in fact, they have experienced many thousands of years of great friendship. But by the end of the Third Age all the races have been driven apart by Sauron’s designs, and so they mistrust each other.

I had kind of hoped Peter would tone down the hatred theme in “The Hobbit”, and in a way he did, but instead of doing a complete about-face on the topic he is retro-engineering an explanation for why Gimli bursts out with “never trust an elf!” at the Council of Elrond. It is at once both a clever construction and an unfortunate choice because these movies will forever cloud the discussions of Middle-earth with confused and ill-informed commentary (that was already in place but only magnified after the first film came out).

The dwarf-elf animosity is certainly there in the books. Honestly, it almsot feels like Martinez is grasping for things to complain about with the movies. Pre-Lothlórien, Legolas and Gimli spend a lot of their time making snide comments about elves and dwarves and sniping at each other. In fact, we see them fighting more in the book than in the film. The Legolas-Gimli friendship and the gift of Galadriel's hair are significant precisely because they're different than usual elf-dwarf relations. The Hobbit even says that the grudge over the Nauglamír incident is still there late in the Third Age. When Eru adopts the dwarves, he says they will have strife with the other children.

Yes, the elves and dwarves were allies at times, but I don't really see much evidence for "thousands of years of great friendship." Even pre-fall-of-Doriath, while the elves trade with dwarves and sometimes fight alongside them, Finrod seems to be the only elf who has any real fondness for them.

I do think that Thorin's animosity toward Elrond is overdone, but as a whole I don't see the problem with the portrayal of elf-dwarf relations in the movies.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Yes, that is an odd thing for Michael to say.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Interesting points from Martinez. He can be very perceptive, but at other times, off base, IMO. While the dwarf-elf tensions were not as cartoonish as PJ presents them in LOTR and TH, they are there.

I'm dating myself, but I remember when Martinez berated PJ for months when he saw the first images of Gondorian soldiers with plate armor. I agreed with him in that I would also have preferred chain mail across the board (as plate is far too late-medieval for Tolkien), and felt that it was indicative of PJ not quite getting Tolkien. But compared to PJ's other sins, I found it a minor violation.

V-man,

I can point to a hundred points that you've made many, many times. In this case, I found it interesting that McKellen made that observation as well.

That said, one of the films' worst scenes was shot on location: scene 88. So on-location shooting does not all ills solve.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

This may be asking too much, but can you give any examples? I'm not saying you are wrong, but I generally try to avoid making the same point over and over*, so if it something that you have observed, it would be helpful to have an example so that I can avoid it in the future.


* Other than teasing you about Adolpho Cuaron, of course.