I believe a mistake was made by Christopher Tolkien. I always thought Gandalf a maiar from reading the sillmarillion as Olórin was a Maiar. However, of course , our sillmarillion was not published by J.R.R Tolkien but Christopher and I believe Tolkien left us with the idea of two separate olorins in Valinor. And after reading unfinished Tales [Post LOTR writing/essays on the istari] I think J.R.R left the question open but also indicated Gandalf was valar I think his power justified that position as well.
“They [Valar] sent members of their own high order [the istari], but clad in bodies as of men.”
-Unfinished Tales the Istari
This above passage of could perhaps be understood as a maiar as the same order as valar but it seems to go against the text. That in fact is how Christopher understood it to mean valar. Christopher noticed this “mistake” of Gandalf being a valar. Yet it came from later Tolkien writings [post lotr] and Christopher's counter and proof it was a “mistake” was his version of the published sillmarillion. Than we have this text making a better case
“it is said in the latter days it was believed by many of the “faithful” that Gandalf was the last appearance of Manwë himself”
-Unfinished tales the Istari
The argument of course that Gandalf was a maiar comes from his identification as Olórin. However even here does not prove him a maiar.
“That Gandalf said that his name “in the west” had been Olórin was, according to this belief, the adoption of an Incognito, a mere by name. I do not [of course] know the truth of the matter.”
-Unfinished tales
Thus I think Tolkien left it open to what order Gandalf was but I think indicated he was a valar.
Was Gandalf a Valar?
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Tolkien R.J.J
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Was Gandalf a Valar?
“I am a Christian, that fact can be deduced from my stories.”
-J.R.R Tolkien
“I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late.”
-J.R.R Tolkien
“Tolkien was a lifelong enemy of big government in every form, not just the harsher forms we find in soviet communism, German Nazism, or Italian fascism, but also as it manifested itself in British democratic socialism and the mongol state capitalism in other parts of the west.”
-Jonathan Witt and Jay W The Hobbit Party: The vision of freedom that Tolkien got and the west forgot
-J.R.R Tolkien
“I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late.”
-J.R.R Tolkien
“Tolkien was a lifelong enemy of big government in every form, not just the harsher forms we find in soviet communism, German Nazism, or Italian fascism, but also as it manifested itself in British democratic socialism and the mongol state capitalism in other parts of the west.”
-Jonathan Witt and Jay W The Hobbit Party: The vision of freedom that Tolkien got and the west forgot
Was Gandalf a Valar?
Did Doug Kane have anything to say about this in his book on The Sil’s creation?
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Was Gandalf a Valar?
No, because there really isn't any real argument that Gandalf was one of the Valar, not one of the Maiar (at least Gandalf the Grey; there certainly is an argument that when Gandalf was returned by Eru Ilúvatar his position was "elevated").
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: Was Gandalf a Valar?
Thank you.
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Was Gandalf a Valar?
You're welcome!
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"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Tolkien R.J.J
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Re: Was Gandalf a Valar?
Middle Earth Conspiracy Theory Gandalf was Manwë
I still need to read The Peoples of Middle-Earth before i make a conclusion. But i thought of a conspiracy theory. What if Gandalf was indeed Manwë. Manwë asked Olórin to go and Olórin was scarred and Manwë said it was the more reason he should go. But either Olórin refused or because he was scarred, Manwë stepped in and became Gandalf but because he wished not to reveal who he was [most well known and powerful valar besides morgoth and the purpose was to help the free people not fight for them as they would wish if they knew it was he] he used the incognito name of Olórin since he was his desired servant.
I still need to read The Peoples of Middle-Earth before i make a conclusion. But i thought of a conspiracy theory. What if Gandalf was indeed Manwë. Manwë asked Olórin to go and Olórin was scarred and Manwë said it was the more reason he should go. But either Olórin refused or because he was scarred, Manwë stepped in and became Gandalf but because he wished not to reveal who he was [most well known and powerful valar besides morgoth and the purpose was to help the free people not fight for them as they would wish if they knew it was he] he used the incognito name of Olórin since he was his desired servant.
“I am a Christian, that fact can be deduced from my stories.”
-J.R.R Tolkien
“I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late.”
-J.R.R Tolkien
“Tolkien was a lifelong enemy of big government in every form, not just the harsher forms we find in soviet communism, German Nazism, or Italian fascism, but also as it manifested itself in British democratic socialism and the mongol state capitalism in other parts of the west.”
-Jonathan Witt and Jay W The Hobbit Party: The vision of freedom that Tolkien got and the west forgot
-J.R.R Tolkien
“I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late.”
-J.R.R Tolkien
“Tolkien was a lifelong enemy of big government in every form, not just the harsher forms we find in soviet communism, German Nazism, or Italian fascism, but also as it manifested itself in British democratic socialism and the mongol state capitalism in other parts of the west.”
-Jonathan Witt and Jay W The Hobbit Party: The vision of freedom that Tolkien got and the west forgot
Re: Was Gandalf a Valar?
Well, it goes along with the theory that Tom Bombadil was actually Aulë, so why not.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!