The new Star Trek film

Post by **solicitr** » Fri May 22, 2009 7:45 pm

Really? I'll still take that old model-shot of Enterprise rising up behind Khan's unsuspecting Reliant like a sunrise of doom any time.

And Eric Bana's Nero is *nothing* to compare with Montalban's scenery-chomping, Moby-Dick-quoting, hair-band-reject over-the-top Evil Ham: one of the great, great movie villains.

Fri May 22, 2009 7:55 pm

I agree that Montalban's Khan was one of the great corny movie villians of all time. Haven't seen the new film, but I can't imagine Eric Bana being in the same league.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Fri May 22, 2009 7:56 pm

"Quien es mas macho? Lloyd Bridges o Ricardo Montalban?"

As if there could be any question.

Post by **axordil** » Fri May 22, 2009 8:36 pm

It wasn't as good as Wrath of Khan, no. But it was better than all the others.

The difference between the two may be summed up in the beauty shot of the Enterprise popping out of Titan's atmosphere with Saturn and its rings in the background versus the shot soli mentions from WOK. Both are nice to look at. Only one actually makes any damn sense: the whole "we'll use the magnetic interference of Saturn's rings" thing is obviously there for the sole purpose of creating that beauty shot. The nebula in WOK does make for pretty pictures too, but it's more important to the plot. One could even argue it has symbolic value: as Kirk hides from his destiny, and the repercussions of his actions, so he hides his ship until he can cheat fate one more time.

OK, maybe I wouldn't argue that last TOO hard. But it's still a better movie.

Post by **solicitr** » Fri May 22, 2009 8:42 pm

Once enough time has passed to be spoiler-safe, it would be fun to run down how the new movie's plot is pretty much exactly that of WOK.

Post by **Angbasdil** » Fri May 22, 2009 9:06 pm

Personally, I really liked Nero as a villain. He's not some genetically engineered supergenius or anything like that. He's a miner. You know, just this everyday working guy who's reeeally pissed off cuz his planet got all blowed up and now he finds himself in a position to do something about it. Yeah, his situation is a bit contrived maybe. But as a character he just seems more real (and more relatable) than most Trek bad guys. If I were in his shoes, I just might go off the deep end and start blowing stuff up too. Especially if I thought it would help bring my family and my planet back from oblivion.

Or maybe that's just me.

Post by **River** » Fri May 22, 2009 9:16 pm

Nero was Eric Bana??

Whoa. Not quite as staggering as Karl Urban being McCoy, but whoa. They did a good job taking the sexy out of both those guys. I would never have guessed...

I loved that shot of the Enterprise rising out of Titan's atmosphere but I agree that it was utterly extraneous. I know why the director and producers would have put it in, but I have no idea why, in the context of the story, the Enterprise crew decided to do that - it seems like it would be really rough on their fuel reserves and their ship to enter Titan's atmposphere. Then again, I'm not sure cruising around inside a nebula was such a great idea either. But I try not to let science interfere with my enjoyment of science fiction.

That and they scored many points just by being silent in the shot where they were doing a space drop. Though they never really addressed how Kirk, Sulu, and Olsen DID NOT burn up on entering Vulcan's atmosphere.

Post by **axordil** » Fri May 22, 2009 9:18 pm

The concept of Nero as villain isn't bad. The execution is rushed, because there's so much backstory. He's plausible but unexciting, as opposed to Khan's implausible but exciting. The latter is much more in line with Star Trek's overall tone as a franchise.

Post by **Crucifer** » Fri May 22, 2009 11:30 pm

Though they never really addressed how Kirk, Sulu, and Olsen DID NOT burn up on entering Vulcan's atmosphere.

I asked myself that in the theatre, and decided that the suits they were wearing must have been some sort of protective device, against suffocating in the vacuum, freezing in the vacuum and burning up in the atmosphere...

Post by **River** » Sat May 23, 2009 12:07 am

Yeah, but they didn't even show the suits heating up. Or if they did, I somehow didn't notice. It would have a cool visual too...silence but for breathing, darkness, falling and then the rush of air and fire and wide-panicky eyes as they make a scorching entry.

Post by **axordil** » Sat May 23, 2009 12:25 am

I don't think the Romulan ship was in orbit: it had to be manually station-keeping to keep the "drill" lined up. There's a Bad Astronomy blog entry that talks about this:

The Scene:

Kirk, Sulu, and Officer Red Shirt (srsly! His suit is red!) jump from a shuttle to attack the mining drill when it’s lowered from the Romulan ship over Vulcan. Wearing space suits, they fall from orbit, land on the drill, fight the Romulans, and stop the drill.

Prepare to dive!

The Science:

Well, there’s lots of bad and good science here. Strap in.

First off, something they got right once I thought about it some. The shuttle left Enterprise to go to the Romulan ship. At first I thought both ships were in orbit, but that’s not true! The Romulan ship had lowered the mining drill from above the atmosphere, but it had to be hovering above the ground to do that, not orbiting the planet, or else they wouldn’t be stationary over one spot (true, there is a geosynchronous orbit that keeps you over one spot, but it’s tens of thousands of kilometers over the surface, and the ships were clearly just above Vulcan’s atmosphere).

So when the trio jump from the shuttle, my first thought was that they’d still be in orbit; to deorbit means they’d need to change their velocity by several km/sec, which is clearly not possible. But they weren’t in orbit, so they just fell. OK, +1 internets for the movie.

They would fall fast. And they did! Their speed was a little less than a kilometer per second, which sounds about right. At their altitude there wouldn’t be much if any air to slow them, so they’d free fall; as they plunged deeper air resistance would slow them down. At first I thought they’d actually burn like meteors, but in reality (ha! Reality!) they weren’t going that fast.

Post by **Lalaith** » Sat May 23, 2009 3:53 am

Awesome!

And I'm with you, River. I had forgotten that Eric Bana was in this movie, so it wasn't till the end credits that I went, "Who the heck did Eric Bana play?!" I realized it must have been Nero.

And didn't Olsen realize what was going to happen to him since he was wearing the red suit? Poor guy didn't stand a chance.

Post by **Mrs.Underhill** » Sun May 24, 2009 12:40 am

Wee, I went and saw it a second time!
And it went much better than the first time!
Because the first time there was lots of action to absorb, explosions, people running back and forth etc. I found out I missed a lot of important character moments.
For example, Kirk's realization, after mind-melting with old!Spock, that Spock too has feelings. Great acting by Pine there, btw. You can see how it dawns on him and how he rethinks his attitude towards Spock(s).

Also, this time around Spock's decision to maroon Kirk was that much more understandable. As Spock was so annoyed with Kirk coming aboard illegally - for Spock, Kirk wasn't supposed to be on the ship in the first place. And then interfering on the bridge illegally, and getting promoted to the 1st officer for that. Plus cheating on that test. Kirk was getting on Spock' nerves for quite a while, and then the stress of his planet and mom gone - and he snapped.

Spock and Kirk interactions were a joy to watch. Both actors knocked it out of the park - this time around, I could pay more attention to characters and less to the plot.
I must admit I liked Pine's acting better than Shatner's, who, after watching some TOS, I found wooden in many scenes.

More spoilers:
Also, noticed how Spock had a soft spot for Uhura from the very beginning, where she pressed him to get her on the Enterprise.

Also, some plot devices which bothered me the first time were understood this time. For the example, they had to dive for that platform rather than teleport there because that laser beam disabled transporting and communications.

But I have to agree that the weakest link of the movie is the villain. Neru is painfully underexposed, not enough time is given for his development.
I've heard somewhere they had to cut his backstory, and also the story of how he spent 25 years waiting for the main events.

I wish they made DVD extended version, with those cuts included! I would buy it in an instant.

P.S:
Continue watching TOS. Have to say that impossible skirts of the women are somewhat balanced by Kirk showing some skin in every episode. I forgot how consistent that was.

And couldn't help but giggle
over this scene. Ah, good old times.

P.P.S.
Have you seen Robot Chicken's opera version of Wrath of Khan? Hysterical. And opera style suites that villain very well.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Sun May 24, 2009 1:23 am

Mrs.Underhill, that link goes to a "404 Forbidden" notice. What scene was it? Inquiring minds want to know.

Sun May 24, 2009 1:30 am

The link works for me

Post by **WampusCat** » Sun May 24, 2009 1:39 am

It's forbidden to me. I take that personally.

Post by **Mrs.Underhill** » Sun May 24, 2009 1:43 am

Primula Baggins wrote:Mrs.Underhill, that link goes to a "404 Forbidden" notice. What scene was it? Inquiring minds want to know.

Try this one:
http://static.diary.ru/userdir/5/5/1/9/ ... 929216.jpg

Post by **WampusCat** » Sun May 24, 2009 1:45 am

Oh my.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Sun May 24, 2009 1:56 am

IAWWC.

Post by **Mrs.Underhill** » Sun May 24, 2009 2:04 am

Come on, it's just a piece of stalactite.

But if I were that giant android dude, I'd be worried.