Tolkien and the Great War
-
ToshoftheWuffingas
- Posts: 1579
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm
-
axordil
- Pleasantly Twisted
- Posts: 8999
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:35 pm
- Location: Black Creek Bottoms
- Contact:
Tremendous post, Mossy. I found myself nodding a lot. 
To expand on a point you make: one of the things that separates LOTR from virtually all other high/epic fantasy is that there is no final battle between the the Big Good and the Big Bad at the end. Even PJ figured out the idea rang false (just in time, too) as appealing to his hindbrain as the idea was.
One could argue it's a theological consideration, but I think the nature of WWI--of modern war in general--has something to do with it. You never see the enemy leader. Individual physical courage, even heroism, eventually loses out to numbers and mechanized production. All the romantic conceits of chivalric romance ultimately fail. I don't think this can be stressed enough in understanding how modern LOTR is as a novel. It's certainly sailed right on over the heads of a lot of imitators.
To expand on a point you make: one of the things that separates LOTR from virtually all other high/epic fantasy is that there is no final battle between the the Big Good and the Big Bad at the end. Even PJ figured out the idea rang false (just in time, too) as appealing to his hindbrain as the idea was.
One could argue it's a theological consideration, but I think the nature of WWI--of modern war in general--has something to do with it. You never see the enemy leader. Individual physical courage, even heroism, eventually loses out to numbers and mechanized production. All the romantic conceits of chivalric romance ultimately fail. I don't think this can be stressed enough in understanding how modern LOTR is as a novel. It's certainly sailed right on over the heads of a lot of imitators.
Thanks, Maiden of the Shieldarm.
The other thing is: sad as is reading about the Great War, sad as is reading about Frodo's war, it is sadder yet that we, the Peoples of the West, are still sending our men to war.
Tolkien may never have said it or believed it, but in his day The Great War was called The War to End All Wars.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We shall remember them."
The other thing is: sad as is reading about the Great War, sad as is reading about Frodo's war, it is sadder yet that we, the Peoples of the West, are still sending our men to war.
Tolkien may never have said it or believed it, but in his day The Great War was called The War to End All Wars.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We shall remember them."
Dig deeper.
-
WampusCat
- Creature of the night
- Posts: 8475
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:36 pm
- Location: Where least expected
Mossy, when I read your posts in this thread, I want to immediately run off to reread Lord of the Rings, knowing that it will open up in entirely new ways. That is a great gift. Thank you.
Jungian writer Robert Johnson once told me that LOTR was the myth for our time.
Tolkien experienced the horror of modern warfare, saw the destruction of industrialization, watched the frenzied search for new and more terrible weapons. But his imagination transformed what was unbearable and gave birth to a myth that infused the harsh reality of change with meaning and hope.
Jungian writer Robert Johnson once told me that LOTR was the myth for our time.
Tolkien experienced the horror of modern warfare, saw the destruction of industrialization, watched the frenzied search for new and more terrible weapons. But his imagination transformed what was unbearable and gave birth to a myth that infused the harsh reality of change with meaning and hope.
Take my hand, my friend. We are here to walk one another home.
Avatar from Fractal_OpenArtGroup
Avatar from Fractal_OpenArtGroup
-
Voronwë the Faithful
- Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!
- Posts: 47900
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
- Contact:
-
Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
I very much appreciate your long, insightful posts, Mossy, especially the way they flow like a good conversation where every topic is interesting. I always come away with several new insights at least!
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
-
MaidenOfTheShieldarm
- It's time to try defying gravity
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:35 pm
- Location: Seeking the coast of Utopia.
I truly could not be more honoured by your lovely comments, especially given who they're coming from. I'm just excited when anyone is willing to listen to me talk about all this.
This is an excellent point and, frankly, not one I had really considered. I hope you don't mind if I steal it for my next post. I completely agree that this is a result both of the nature of 20th century warfare and the fact that Tolkien fought in the War to End All Wars and then had to send his son off to the next war which was even bigger. I really do have more thoughts about this, but I'm going to stop there for now.axordil wrote:To expand on a point you make: one of the things that separates LOTR from virtually all other high/epic fantasy is that there is no final battle between the the Big Good and the Big Bad at the end. Even PJ figured out the idea rang false (just in time, too) as appealing to his hindbrain as the idea was.
And it is said by the Eldar that in the water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance else that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the sea, and yet know not what for what they listen.