Health Care Reform

[River]

Yeah, that was my experience when I broke my nose seven years ago. Had a $1200 bill that I couldn't pay as a lump sum so I called the hospital and worked out a plan. No interest. No credit check. Just haggling over how many payments I could make. They were happy to help and eager to make the process as free of humiliation as possible. It's a public hospital. I think they just wanted to be paid without having to go to collections or any other crap.

I have yet to see a bill for Zoe's birth. The billing process can be very slow but either something truly ridiculous has happened or there will be no bill. If the later that's...odd.

[Passdagas the Brown]

It's a great law, and as a self-employed individual, I am already benefiting from it. It offers a flexibility that I think is important in an entrepreneurial America.

[Primula Baggins]

Yes, it's something that's been badly needed for years. I'm a self-employed person married to another self-employed person, and two of our kids are launching into careers in which they'll almost certainly be self-employed for long stretches or all the time. The old system could almost have been designed to discourage ordinary people from heading out on their own. Now we can all breathe.

[anthriel]

I'm going to go out on a limb. I think they are lying to you. Sorry. Maybe they will prove me wrong.

I think it would be pretty gutsy to out-and-out lie about this; this was a slide in a presentation shown to thousands of employees. I can't be the only one who noticed.

However, I'll bet the answer is closer to what River's saying; they probably were excluding people because of pre-existing conditions or whatnot, and now they can't.

I will ask, though, if I can. Interesting stuff.

[Primula Baggins]

They also can't make you pay copays any more for preventive care, and your deductible won't apply to those services and checkups. That's going to cost them more even if nothing else changes.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

It's a great law, and as a self-employed individual, I am already benefiting from it. It offers a flexibility that I think is important in an entrepreneurial America.

I agree. As flawed as it is, it goes a long way towards undoing one of the greatest unspoken inequities in our society. The concept of asking the sick (or even perceived sick, in my case) to pay an unequal share of the overall cost of health care coverage is patently ridiculous. Of course a single payer system would make so much more sense, but this is he best we could have hoped for in the current environment and I give president a lot of credit for seeing it through.

Anthy, I've never heard of an employer-provided plqn that excludes people for having pre-existing conditions, so if that really is it, that would be equally disturbing.

[Primula Baggins]

They do sometimes exclude treatments for preexisting conditions for six months to a year. Twenty years ago, when my husband left the university and started work at a biotech company when I was seven months pregnant, his new insurance did not cover my "preexisting condition" and we had to pay COBRA premiums to his old carrier so my remaining prenatal care and delivery would be covered. Our daughter was covered from the moment of birth, but not me, at least for anything related to pregnancy or childbirth.

Anyway, that's another area where their costs may increase because of ACA rules.

As for the ACA not going far enough—Medicare was pretty weak when it first passed in 1965. Once it was clear how much it was helping people and how much money it saved the health care system, it got strengthened. I don't think it's impossible that this could happen with the ACA as well, especially if the current Republican . . . antics, I have to call them, end up costing them electorally.

ETA: I don't mean to be partisan. But some of what's going on is . . . well, I hear vison's voice in my head saying "Those guys are nutz."

[JewelSong]

Here is the text of an email I sent to Speaker Boehner, via his website.

Dear Mr. Boehner:

Currently I am working overseas in Zambia at an American School. I have been following the news of the latest government grid-lock with both dismay and amusement.

Seriously, sir...what on earth are you thinking? What has happened to the Grand Old Party that they have allowed themselves to ignore basic government procedure and dig in their heels over a law that has *already* been passed and is going into effect? Seriously. Why have you, as speaker, allowed the extreme right fringe to take over what was once a reasonable and conservative - even noble - party?

"Protecting people from Obamacare?" What the hell? The ACA has passed. The Supreme Court upheld it. It is going into effect. Should it be modified? Maybe. But the way to do this is not to shut down the government because some people don't like the specifics of the law.

Get your priorities straight, sir. Stop pandering to the lunatic fringe, because that is exactly what you are doing. Our country looks ridiculous from over here...and the GOP looks like a bunch of spoiled brats, throwing a temper tantrum because they didn't get what they wanted. And to be honest, it isn't even clear WHAT they wanted...except for Obama to "fail."

Nice move. Way to govern! Not.

Seriously, sir. Take a stand here. Maybe you can help the GOP pry its head out of its collective ass.

If you don't, I think what was once the "Grand Old Party" will become so fractured that any hope of winning in the next election will be a lost cause.

Be brave, sir. Get the government open again. Now.

sincerely yours...

[anthriel]

They also can't make you pay copays any more for preventive care, and your deductible won't apply to those services and checkups. That's going to cost them more even if nothing else changes.

Those were always fully covered, actually. No copays applied. No deductibles applied.

Anthy, I've never heard of an employer-provided plqn that excludes people for having pre-existing conditions, so if that really is it, that would be equally disturbing.

Well, I haven't either, and I have not heard of my insurance company involved in such... antics , and I'll betcha if anyone I know had had to deal with such a thing, we all would have heard. Maybe they could exclude family members? <is wildly guessing> Although I probably would have heard about that, too.

No, I have not heard a single complaint about coverage from Banner, in all these years, except for the cost of premiums. Which are going up this year, of course. <sigh>

I already pay a LOT each month, because I am part-time. I may have to go to full-time soon, if those costs go up. I'm not sure how I can afford any more.

But at least I have that option.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Seriously, sir...what on earth are you thinking?

That's our Jewel!

That's an excellent letter. For all the good it will do. Longtime participants in the discussions in this forum will know that I have always tired hard to be evenhanded and to see both sides of every issue. But what is happening now just seems to be to defy reason.

[halplm]

I always enjoy being called the lunatic fringe.

You are both idiots if you think that letter is reasonable or evenhanded in any way.

It's astonishing that you are blinded to the fact that while the House has dug in, it is Obama and the Senate that are refusing to negotiate... as if negotiation on "laws already passed" never happens. That's what the government does!

I can't handle you people any more. I'll see you in sometime... later

[yovargas]

It's astonishing that you are blinded to the fact that while the House has dug in, it is Obama and the Senate that are refusing to negotiate... as if negotiation on "laws already passed" never happens. That's what the government does!

Could you pretty pretty pretty pretty please tell me why you think it is at all reasonable or appropriate to use the on-going threat of a government shutdown as their negotiating tool at this time? The ACA has absolutely nothing to do with the funding bills that our government and our country need - why is it even being brought into this budget debate in the first place, hal?


This is not "negotiation", this is black mail. I very much hope that the President and his party do not cave to such dirty, callous tactics.

[Erunáme]

It's astonishing that you are blinded to the fact that while the House has dug in, it is Obama and the Senate that are refusing to negotiate...

Quick post - I'm absolute SICK of hearing Republicans/Tea Partiers say that Obama and the Democrats won't come to the table and negotiate. There is NO negotiating that can happen when the Republicans want their way and ONLY their way. It's always the Democrats that have to make concessions, not the reverse or the Republicans use blackmain/hostage taking strategies. Such blatant, blatant lies. This along with the democrats supposedly being the ones that shut down the government. I continue to be amazed at how brazenly the Republican party can look into cameras and lie.

And Jewel is right... it all really boils down to wanting Obama to fail as isn't this Affordable Care act something that was quite Republican (like what Mitt Romney did in his state)? Honestly I think this has always boiled down to a segment of America being royally pissed off that there's a black man in the White House and they want to do anything to get him out and see him fail.

[/rant]

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The irony is that with regard to the funding levels in the continuing resolution to keep the government open, the Democrats simply accepted the numbers that the GOP wanted, rather than fighting for the higher spending levels that they (the Dems) wanted. I guess that was their real mistake. If they had dug their heals in on the spending levels, and gradually given in, the GOP could declared "victory" and we wouldn't be in this mess.

But the real problem is the upcoming debt limit. As damaging as the shutdown is, a default could plunge the whole world back into a recession that dwarfs the one in 2008. Yet the Republicans in congress are insisting that the only way they will raise the limit is if Obama agrees to dismantle the ACA.

hal, I would be curious to know what you think about the fact that so many conservatives outside of Congress, most of whom profess to strongly oppose the ACA, think this strategy is a terrible idea. It is not just Democrats and liberals that are saying that.

[halplm]

It's astonishing that you are blinded to the fact that while the House has dug in, it is Obama and the Senate that are refusing to negotiate...

Quick post - I'm absolute SICK of hearing Republicans/Tea Partiers say that Obama and the Democrats won't come to the table and negotiate. There is NO negotiating that can happen when the Republicans want their way and ONLY their way. It's always the Democrats that have to make concessions, not the reverse or the Republicans use blackmain/hostage taking strategies. Such blatant, blatant lies. This along with the democrats supposedly being the ones that shut down the government. I continue to be amazed at how brazenly the Republican party can look into cameras and lie.

And Jewel is right... it all really boils down to wanting Obama to fail as isn't this Affordable Care act something that was quite Republican (like what Mitt Romney did in his state)? Honestly I think this has always boiled down to a segment of America being royally pissed off that there's a black man in the White House and they want to do anything to get him out and see him fail.

[/rant]

That's just, not true.

It astonishes me how blind you people are. I really truly expect better of people here, but I don't know why. I guess that makes me the fool.

[yovargas]

It astonishes me how blind you people are. I really truly expect better of people here, but I don't know why.

It astonishes me how hard it still is for you to disagree with people without insulting them.

[Alatar]

Well, in fairness, his position was described as "the lunatic fringe".

[yovargas]

The irony is that with regard to the funding levels in the continuing resolution to keep the government open, the Democrats simply accepted the numbers that the GOP wanted, rather than fighting for the higher spending levels that they (the Dems) wanted.

Heh, I'd been wondering about this. So the actual negotiations for the actual funding went as smoothly as the Reps could want. So they're not passing a bill they know should be passed in the hope of attacking a completely unrelated bill - they're putting politics over the actual good of the country and this time, the American people see them doing it. They will come to regret this.


You are correct, Al. I didn't much care for js's rhetoric in that case.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I don't either. I much prefer they way you put it.

So they're not passing a bill they know should be passed in the hope of attacking a completely unrelated bill - they're putting politics over the actual good of the country and this time, the American people see them doing it. They will come to regret this.

[halplm]

Ah yes... the "good of the country." I guess that depends on what you think is good for the country, doesn't it?

Anyway, it's been fun, but this lunatic is gone for now. Enjoy the echo chamber.