Media previews

For discussion of Amazon's new television show "The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power"
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Eldy
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Re: Media previews

Post by Eldy »

I definitely agree it would be strange for Círdan not to show up since they're including an Elvish maritime tradition. It's not my intention to write over the accomplishments of the Teleri—especially since I'm realizing that it slipped my mind earlier that Voronwë (the textual one :P) was half-Teler himself.
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kzer_za
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Re: Media previews

Post by kzer_za »

Eldy wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 8:56 pm Seeing the more fantastical, less obviously in terminal decline world of the Second Age is one of the things I'm most looking forward to about the show. I'm glad they're retaining that element of the texts. Though the addition of an "almost"(?) colonial Elvish thalassocracy is an ... interesting decision. Curious to see what that looks like in practice.
The Second Age Noldor do come across as semi-colonial in some texts (mainly Galadriel and Celeborn and its ancillary material), or at the very least the Sindar/Nandor/other elves view them that way. So there is some basis for it. Though of course it's land-based, and moving it to sea risks overlapping too much with Númenor's colonialism.
Hidden text.
They're not officially allowed to use Galadriel and Celeborn but who knows how much wiggle room they have behind the scenes.
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Re: Media previews

Post by Alatar »

Galadriel is one of the main characters in the show??

ETA: Oh you mean the text.
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Eldy
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Re: Media previews

Post by Eldy »

kzer_za wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:55 amThe Second Age Noldor do come across as semi-colonial in some texts (mainly Galadriel and Celeborn and its ancillary material), or at the very least the Sindar/Nandor/other elves view them that way. So there is some basis for it. Though of course it's land-based, and moving it to sea risks overlapping too much with Númenor's colonialism.
Yeah, it's the seafaring part that gives me pause. As I said in an earlier post, the mention of Second Age colonialism is what makes me suspect Howe was referring to the Noldor, since they seem the most likely to do that. Fëanor's sales pitch for the Rebellion was explicitly colonial, and the Noldor's behavior in Beleriand bore that out. The colonial dream didn't die after the War of Wrath, not for those who refused to return to Valinor. In fairness, the Second Age Sindar were in turn pretty colonial towards the Silvan Elves—or at least, that's one interpretation of the (re)founding of Lórinand, Eryn Galen, and possibly Dorwinion. But a progression of peoples, each in turn being colonial to those they perceive as lesser than them, is hardly unrealistic.
kzer_za wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:55 amThey're not officially allowed to use Galadriel and Celeborn but who knows how much wiggle room they have behind the scenes.
I really wish they'd speak frankly about what they can use, since they're clearly not actually limited to just LOTR (or else they were willing to violate their contract when releasing promotional material), but given the level of secrecy Amazon has maintained I'm not holding my breath.
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Re: Media previews

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

There is some kind of odd concordat between Amazon and the Tolkien Estate, or so it seems to me.
A great tree may outlive many a Man, and may remember the seed from which it came ere all the Men that now walk the earth were yet unborn, but the rind upon which you lay your hand, and the leaves which overshadow you, are not as that seed was, nor as the dry wood shall be that decays into the mould or passes in flame. And other trees there are that stand about each different in growth and in shape, according to the chances of their lives, though all be akin, offspring of one yet older tree and sprung therefore from a single seed of long ago.
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Eldy
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Re: Media previews

Post by Eldy »

Agreed, that seems to be the case. I just wish we knew the details of it. :P
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Re: Media previews

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

We probably never will
A great tree may outlive many a Man, and may remember the seed from which it came ere all the Men that now walk the earth were yet unborn, but the rind upon which you lay your hand, and the leaves which overshadow you, are not as that seed was, nor as the dry wood shall be that decays into the mould or passes in flame. And other trees there are that stand about each different in growth and in shape, according to the chances of their lives, though all be akin, offspring of one yet older tree and sprung therefore from a single seed of long ago.
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Eldy
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Re: Media previews

Post by Eldy »

Most likely. :nono:
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Re: Media previews

Post by Eldy »

So The Hollywood Reporter asked Viggo for his thoughts on ROP...
How do you feel about the new The Lord of the Rings prequel coming up. Are you planning on watching it?

What is that? The TV thing? It is with Apple, or something?

It’s Amazon. It’s thought to be the most expensive TV series ever made.

Oh, right. Yeah, I’ll watch that. But do you know what source material they’re using? What were they allowed to use?

I’m not sure exactly, but it’s set thousands of years before The Lord of the Rings. And it’s all being made with the Tolkien estate. Your ancestors are in it. I believe Isildur is one of the main characters.

Oh, that’s cool! Yeah, It’ll be fun to see.
:rofl:
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Re: Media previews

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

He's so cool!
A great tree may outlive many a Man, and may remember the seed from which it came ere all the Men that now walk the earth were yet unborn, but the rind upon which you lay your hand, and the leaves which overshadow you, are not as that seed was, nor as the dry wood shall be that decays into the mould or passes in flame. And other trees there are that stand about each different in growth and in shape, according to the chances of their lives, though all be akin, offspring of one yet older tree and sprung therefore from a single seed of long ago.
- J.R.R. Tolkien, Dangweth Pengolod

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Re: Media previews

Post by Inanna »

Hilarious! I really like him!
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Re: Media previews

Post by Alatar »

I feel like they'll be given a little wiggle room on a case by case basis rather than a hard and fast rule. Much like the ring of Barahir in LotR, and the Nauglamír references in The Hobbit
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Re: Media previews

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I don't disagree with that, but I think that there are potentially two significant differences. The first is that the Tolkien Estate is apparently an active participant in the process, rather than a looming adversary. The second is the nature of the work being "adapted"; with the LOTR films it primarily adapting the work at hand; things like the Ring of Barahir were far into the margins (and even there, it is at least mentioned in the appendices). With this show, they are creating something new that is only loosely based on little bit that they supposedly have rights to, while there is a lot more said in writings that they do not officially (or at least publicly) have right to. I think those are potentially significant differences.
A great tree may outlive many a Man, and may remember the seed from which it came ere all the Men that now walk the earth were yet unborn, but the rind upon which you lay your hand, and the leaves which overshadow you, are not as that seed was, nor as the dry wood shall be that decays into the mould or passes in flame. And other trees there are that stand about each different in growth and in shape, according to the chances of their lives, though all be akin, offspring of one yet older tree and sprung therefore from a single seed of long ago.
- J.R.R. Tolkien, Dangweth Pengolod

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Re: Media previews

Post by kzer_za »

There seems to have always been a little fudging given on the rights. Licensed games in the 80s and 90s used First/Second Age material sometimes. Alatar and Pallando even showed up in one card game, by name (I believe you could play any of the five Istari as your main character). Things of course tightened up after the movies...but even then, there were the origins of orcs and the Ring of Barahir, and the latter is direct and specific enough that I have to think there must have been some kind of clearance from the estate to use it.

What's going on this time - well, who knows.
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