Gun Control Debate

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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Gun Control Debate

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

:(
A great tree may outlive many a Man, and may remember the seed from which it came ere all the Men that now walk the earth were yet unborn, but the rind upon which you lay your hand, and the leaves which overshadow you, are not as that seed was, nor as the dry wood shall be that decays into the mould or passes in flame. And other trees there are that stand about each different in growth and in shape, according to the chances of their lives, though all be akin, offspring of one yet older tree and sprung therefore from a single seed of long ago.
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Re: Gun Control Debate

Post by Alatar »

I hope this doesn't turn into a witch hunt to blame first responders instead of looking at the actual causes... oh who am I kidding...
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Re: Gun Control Debate

Post by RoseMorninStar »

I saw this the other day and it pretty much sums the ridiculousness up:
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Eldy
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Re: Gun Control Debate

Post by Eldy »

Alatar wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:35 amI hope this doesn't turn into a witch hunt to blame first responders instead of looking at the actual causes... oh who am I kidding...
I would certainly like there to be meaningful gun reform (though I largely gave up hope of ever seeing it after Sandy Hook failed to make a difference), but I'd also like to see the police held to a standard commensurate to the amount of military hardware and cultural fêting that get heaped upon them. But American police have no duty to protect the public, so I don't expect to get what I want in this regard, either, unless one or a few individuals are hung out to dry as scapegoats.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Gun Control Debate

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Yes, I don't think it needs to be an either/or.
A great tree may outlive many a Man, and may remember the seed from which it came ere all the Men that now walk the earth were yet unborn, but the rind upon which you lay your hand, and the leaves which overshadow you, are not as that seed was, nor as the dry wood shall be that decays into the mould or passes in flame. And other trees there are that stand about each different in growth and in shape, according to the chances of their lives, though all be akin, offspring of one yet older tree and sprung therefore from a single seed of long ago.
- J.R.R. Tolkien, Dangweth Pengolod

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N.E. Brigand
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Re: Gun Control Debate

Post by N.E. Brigand »

As expected, the Supreme Court today struck down a century-old New York law that required anyone wishing to get a concealed carry permit for handguns to "demonstrate a special need for self-protection distinguishable from that of the general community."

President Biden says that today's ruling "contradicts both common sense and the Constitution, and should deeply trouble us all." I agree. The Supreme Court is violating the Constitution yet again, and they'll never face consequences for doing so.
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Re: Gun Control Debate

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I think it is horrible decision, but I think I am even more offended by the idea that Supreme Court justices should face "consequences" for having a different opinion on how to interpret the constitution. That is a truly dangerous idea, in my opinion.
A great tree may outlive many a Man, and may remember the seed from which it came ere all the Men that now walk the earth were yet unborn, but the rind upon which you lay your hand, and the leaves which overshadow you, are not as that seed was, nor as the dry wood shall be that decays into the mould or passes in flame. And other trees there are that stand about each different in growth and in shape, according to the chances of their lives, though all be akin, offspring of one yet older tree and sprung therefore from a single seed of long ago.
- J.R.R. Tolkien, Dangweth Pengolod

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Eldy
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Re: Gun Control Debate

Post by Eldy »

I too would be very careful with rhetoric about "consequences," not that I think N.E. Brigand meant anything terrible by this, but just because it's so easily taken a bad way. That said, I think (though, admittedly, I have not spent much time refining this thought) that the Supreme Court's power of constitutional review hits differently in the current environment. Granted, people have always been understandably upset when decisions go against them, but I don't think it's solely down to a matter of perception. Part of that is the Roberts Court's very loose attitude towards precedent, but also, I think, because Congress is presently so ill-equipped to play its theoretical balancing role. The idea of a new constitutional amendment feels far-fetched, to put it lightly—though that's as much due to state legislatures—but so is the idea of Congress successfully passing a bill that could mitigate the consequences of a new landmark decision, like Employment Division v. Smith and the RFRA. Even if such a law could somehow be passed when the two chambers are controlled by different parties, it would most likely be promptly gutted by the Court.
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Re: Gun Control Debate

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:11 pm I think it is horrible decision, but I think I am even more offended by the idea that Supreme Court justices should face "consequences" for having a different opinion on how to interpret the constitution. That is a truly dangerous idea, in my opinion.
There's nothing special about the judicial branch as opposed to the legislative branch or the executive branch. They're all politicians, and when they go too far, they should be kicked out of office. That's what I meant by consequences. Maybe this decision isn't sufficiently bad to justify removal, but there certainly have been some that demanded such a serious response. The U.S. would have been a better and more just nation if the seven Supreme Court justices who ruled for the majority in Plessy v. Fergusson in 1896 had promptly been impeached for violating the Constitution and replaced with Justices who would undo the pure evil of segregation.
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Re: Gun Control Debate

Post by Frelga »

Taken as a whole, the recent SCOTUS decisions are paving a way for a state in which citizens have no recourse against an oppressive government and the armed thugs who support it.

And the party that still has some of power for the next few months lives in a delusional fantasy where liberty and democracy are some sort of self-generating magic, instead of a hard won and fragile state.
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

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Re: Gun Control Debate

Post by N.E. Brigand »

It's a small step, but it's not nothing:

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