Idle thoughts on LOTR for TV

[Anduril]

The recent news got me thinking. I probably don't have it in me to attempt a whole script for all of it, and Tosh did a great job already, so these are just some scattered thoughts if there were to be a reboot. This assumes it will be 100% Estate approved and they can reference everything. Also I admit I haven't picked up the book in a while, much less watched the films, so this is going by memory:

The visuals would have to be different and that's the main challenge the makers would face because the films got Lee and Howe, the main, official, and favored illustrators. But let's say they try to be consistent with a different time period this time for everyone except the Hobbits. Let's say early medieval, no middle/late medieval stuff like the plate armor in the films.

People complain a lot about reboots, so a way to justify it would be to tackle the story differently from the previous attempt. In this case this would mean trying to be more faithful, even if not strictly to the letter, but rather to the themes in its messages and characters--while also trying to keep a almost pre-modern book more modern media-friendly--while also trying to spice up things a little. All adaptation is compromise.

Do the Hobbit first or not? Its films are even more recent than the LOTR ones. Maybe some flashbacks to the riddle game when needed. Bilbo should look exactly the same, no grey hair, since the Ring stopped his aging.

The films "Americanized" the story by downplaying the royalty/nobility and class aspects. A TV series could tackle them head on. It isn't a modern story, but that's part of its appeal.

Aragorn doesn't not want to be king. but he has dedicated his life to opposing Sauron. Becoming king is a side effect. Also in the process he gets married.

People like Sean Bean's Boromir because Sean Bean is likable and they played up his rapport with the hobbits, which in retrospect was too obvious foreshadowing for his death. But in the process they brought down Faramir a peg or two. New Boromir could be a kind of stuffy upper class but ultimately courageous officer type (think Michael Caine in Zulu) with a moustache (think John Cleese).

Keep the hobbit age differences, have Frodo act his age, and keep Merry and Pippin distinct. Pippin must easily be identified as the youngest. Keep Sam as a servant rather than an almost-equal as the films implied. You have the gardener line in the second movie but that's it.

The hilt-shard of Narsil should be slightly too big for Aragorn's hands since Elendil is taller than him by quite a bit. Also evoking the sword of giants from Beowulf. Since this is early medieval, it shouldn't be a longsword as long as those in the films. Hand and a half at best. Maybe one-handed for Elendil but two handed for Aragorn.

Have Aragorn carry the hilt-shard and present it at Bree but keep the other half (most of the blade) at Elrond's. The idea is if ever the hilt is lost, at least some of the blade will be preserved, but it keeps the book element that the chief of the Rangers is responsible for the sword. Then Boromir comes to seek the Blade that was Broken. Aragorn also has a long knife and a bow and arrows but he leaves them at the weapons check-in-check-out depot at the Bree gate. He does say he is a hunter at need so he must have had a knife or something to make traps.

Have Saruman's ringmaking, only mentioned once in the book, be the method of his deception/immobilizing of Théoden, and the Dunlendings, and the Ruffians. The Exorcist stuff in the movies was just a shortcut for what was basically pep talk in the books, but let's meet sort of halfway. Saruman makes a ring that while not a Ring of Power amplifies his persuasion and his Voice. He then makes sub-rings that lets him influence the wearers. Grima gets a ring, Théoden gets a ring through Grima, the Dunlending chief gets a ring, heck Bill Ferny and friends get rings, etc. When Gandalf comes to restore Théoden he makes him and Grima remove their rings but Grima goes to Saruman anyway.

Old Tom is out, as is. Just have the Bree folk sing songs about him at the inn. Have someone dressed like him there singing with them.

That means the barrow wights are out, as is. But the barrow-blade having enchantments against the Witch-king is too neat not to use, so just have Merry bring out some old swords from the family vault and later Aragorn recognizes them in surprise?

Éowyn giving up her sword wouldn't fly today as is. Just have her muse that if the war ends and she and Faramir survive, she might consider laying it down, instead learning to value life and things that grow, etc. Faramir tells her that there may be times when her sword will still be needed.

Emphasize the languages so dear to Tolkien. Who's saying what, how they say it. How they call themselves and what others call them. Say at least once that Elves are Quendi, Dwarves are Khazâd, etc. Rohan is more often called The Mark by its people. Have more Old English. Translate Théoden's rallying cries, and perhaps a lot more Rohan dialogue when logical. Maybe people aren't as adverse to subtitles as they were 15+ years ago.

Have Théoden or someone swipe the famous line from The Battle of Maldon: "Will shall be the sterner, heart the bolder, spirit the greater as our strength lessens." More thoughts probably later.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I would love to see an intrepid director try to tackle Old Tom.

[Alatar]

Incidentally Voronwë, Brian Sibley just posted on FB that the BBC have reissued his "Tales from the Perilous Realm" which contains, afaik, the only adaptation of the Tom Bombadil chapters from LotR.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Interesting!

[Alatar]

Here's the link if interested.

https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/1114669 ... ous-realm/

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Thanks!

[Dave_LF]

Incidentally Voronwë, Brian Sibley just posted on FB that the BBC have reissued his "Tales from the Perilous Realm" which contains, afaik, the only adaptation of the Tom Bombadil chapters from LotR.

The Mind's Eye dramatization included him too, though it's probably better left unmentioned (too late now).

[Alatar]

Hnnnnuuurrgghhhh. Brain Bleach!

[Pearly Di]

Ooooh, it's just like old days! I'll play.

I remember the BBC take on Bombadil. I liked him, and Goldberry, but did NOT like Nigel Planer as Frodo. Come back, Ian Holm!

Keep the hobbit age differences, have Frodo act his age, and keep Merry and Pippin distinct. Pippin must easily be identified as the youngest. Keep Sam as a servant rather than an almost-equal as the films implied. You have the gardener line in the second movie but that's it.

In that case, Frodo MUST look a bit older than Sam. It always jarred me that Movie Frodo looked younger than Movie Sam!

Have Saruman's ringmaking, only mentioned once in the book, be the method of his deception/immobilizing of Théoden, and the Dunlendings, and the Ruffians. The Exorcist stuff in the movies was just a shortcut for what was basically pep talk in the books, but let's meet sort of halfway. Saruman makes a ring that while not a Ring of Power amplifies his persuasion and his Voice. He then makes sub-rings that lets him influence the wearers. Grima gets a ring, Théoden gets a ring through Grima, the Dunlending chief gets a ring, heck Bill Ferny and friends get rings, etc. When Gandalf comes to restore Théoden he makes him and Grima remove their rings but Grima goes to Saruman anyway.

That's a great idea. That would be far too many rings for a movie adaptation, but it could work in a TV series. Effective, and visual, use of the ring-theme.

Old Tom is out, as is. Just have the Bree folk sing songs about him at the inn. Have someone dressed like him there singing with them

.

LOL. I've never hankered for Tom to be in any adaptation. I really like the idea of the Bree folk singing songs about him though!

That means the barrow wights are out, as is. But the barrow-blade having enchantments against the Witch-king is too neat not to use, so just have Merry bring out some old swords from the family vault and later Aragorn recognizes them in surprise?

Oh, that's great! I love it. The Brandybucks are one of the most ancient and influential families in the Shire. The idea of them sitting on ancient stuff from Eriador that they had no idea about fits their history beautifully. C'mon, they and the Tooks must have sent archers centuries back to help the King against the might of Angmar.

Éowyn giving up her sword wouldn't fly today as is. Just have her muse that if the war ends and she and Faramir survive, she might consider laying it down, instead learning to value life and things that grow, etc. Faramir tells her that there may be times when her sword will still be needed.

Niiiiiiiiice. Also, a TV series can give far more time to my favourite human couple in the story.

Emphasize the languages so dear to Tolkien. Who's saying what, how they say it. How they call themselves and what others call them. Say at least once that Elves are Quendi, Dwarves are Khazâd, etc. Rohan is more often called The Mark by its people. Have more Old English. Translate Théoden's rallying cries, and perhaps a lot more Rohan dialogue when logical. Maybe people aren't as adverse to subtitles as they were 15+ years ago.

Terrific, love it.

[Anduril]

"All that is gold does not glitter" could be treated as a trust-password at the inn.
---
(Gandalf's voice reads the letter aloud, he is shown writing it)

G: I hope Butterbur sends this promptly. A worthy man, but his memory is like a cellar: thing wanted always buried. If he forgets, I shall roast him.

[Changed "lumber-room" to "cellar" since it means "wooden furniture room" and not lumber stockroom to my surprise; today's audiences might wonder at the simile since wood is just piled. Would have used "attic" since it's higher and fits the brain thing better but hobbit holes don't have attics]

(cut to Frodo reading the letter silently, Gandalf's voiceover continues)

G: And make sure it is the real Strider. There are many strange men on the roads. His true name is Aragorn.

(Frodo's line of sight goes to the poem, and Gandalf's rune signature)

F: There's a poem at the end. I can't make out what it's about.

(Aragorn looks interested)

A: A poem? Read it.

F: All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost.

A: The old that is strong does not wither. Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

(Frodo is surprised)

F: You know it?

A: Finish it.

F: Finish? Oh-- From the ashes a fire shall be woken. A light from the shadows shall spring.

(Aragorn looks more contemplative than usual)

A: Renewed shall be blade that was broken. (brief pause) The crownless again shall be king.

[later, after Sam and Pippin have read the letter]

S: How can we be sure you are the Strider that Gandalf meant? You never mentioned Gandalf until this letter came out. You might be a play-acting spy. And anyone can learn lines.
---

[Anduril]

Necro-post

All the show stuff got me thinking, is there a way to find a "happy medium" between modern sensibilities/expectations and strict adherence to the texts, while keeping the spirit of it more than has been done before, not going as far as what has already been done before? Tinker too much and some things fall like dominoes, disturb the foundations and it becomes like building on sand. Like with Arwen, a modern audience would want to see her integrated in the main narrative more, okay. To see her fight. O-kay? If you lean too much in that direction then the force of Éowyn's subplot is weakened. Like the movies cut her fighting in Helm's Deep as a step too far maybe, but she didn't feel like the same character in the last two movies compared to the first, and her life being bound to the Ring nonsense just came out of nowhere. Then perhaps inevitably, the show has chosen to extend or extrapolate from Tolkien's late descriptions of Galadriel as a tomboy in her youth who fought in like one battle to make her a full-blown war leader or something who at least in the First Age always marched alongside the boys, as far as I can tell. You think they'll have her "give up the sword" eventually to transition into "LOTR Galadriel"? I doubt it, given how Éowyn is criticized today for it. So perhaps a more nuanced and consistent approach is needed to satisfy the most across the spectrum from modernism/revisionism to purism, however you call it.

Maybe introduce Arwen's brothers with Glorfindel, though Frodo faces the Ringwraiths alone, it's one of his big moments. Then introduce Arwen when Elrond heals him, they heal him together and she's like his Florence Nightingale. Have all of Elrond's children present at the Council, give Arwen the most lines as acting "first lady" to to the "president" Elrond. Much later, when her brothers ride with the Rangers she accompanies them bearing her own banner and kitted out like Joan of Arc. But also akin to Joan of Arc she doesn't kill anyone or even hit anyone with a sword though she has one. Then later she helps Aragorn heal the sick and wounded, particularly Éowyn and Faramir.

[Anduril]

Should elves stop visibly aging when they look like around 18-20 in human years to emphasize eternal youth, or do you lean more around 30 to show a bit more maturity? Based on some quick Googling I think the average age for the elf actors was around 30 with Weaving being older than everyone else. The perfect solution would be to do it in animation... wishful thinking.

Fëanor and sons being eternal 18-20 year olds as far as we humans are concerned, with Fëanor having seven sons his apparent age, might go some way to explain things.

[Alatar]

I would lean more to 30s

[Frelga]

I also think it's closer to full maturity in humans, but it would be hilarious if it was 18. The instinctive reaction to someone who appears to be a kid to a human, but is actually a thousand years old would make for fun interactions.