Episode 3 (Spoilers)

[Stranger Wings]

We'll agree to differ

Sure! Though it’s not much of a difference of opinion. It’s just a lot like something I’ve heard before, so it feels real. I personally would have gone a touch more poetic with it, though. So I do acknowledge that it’s almost too prosaic.


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[Stranger Wings]

I'm not enjoying this much so far. The various storylines they've started are not particularly compelling yet. Maybe it'll get better?

Har-hobbit camouflaged wagons: It won't do much good. Dragging multiple wagons across unpaved grassy fields will leave marks that can be read for months afterwards. Anyone who crosses their very obvious trail can follow it to wherever they are hiding next, if they want to.

And... if the sea is always right or you can't argue with it, why would anyone ever develop sails, rudders or oars? Go where the sea takes you!

That’s not arguing with the sea, though. That’s skillfully collaborating with it to get where you need to go.


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[Stranger Wings]

One thing that I was wondering about is the discussion between Míriel and her father in which Míriel says to him (if I am remembering correctly) that the Elf that he predicted would arrive has done so, implying that Galadriel's arrival was the sign of a pivotal event, probably a bad one. Tar-Palantir is not identified by name, but of course as his name implies he was far-seeing. We know from the trailers that Míriel and Galadriel will look into a palantír together. I wonder if they are going to someone conflate Tar-Palantir with the palantír?

Oh man I wish you hadn't said that, because now I'm dreading it'll actually happen. If we get Tar-Palantir trapped inside a palantír that might be my breaking point for the show haha. Somewhat better would be if he's exiled somewhere distant and they use the palantír to communicate.

Númenórean politics are odd so far but I'm willing to wait and see how they develop. As I said, I'm at least happy they're not just making everything bad all Pharazon's fault.

This is not going to happen because the actor playing Pharazon says he has a nice scene with NZ actor Ken Blackburn, who plays Tar-Palantir.


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[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'm pretty sure k_z was being tongue-in-cheek. Certainly it was not MY intention to suggestion that we were going to get Tar-Palantir trapped inside a palantír. But I am still guessing that there will be some connection between him and it, given that it is Míriel who seems to have the palantír, not Amandil (who so far as we know plays no role in the show) or his son Elendil.

[Heliona]

I must say that I enjoyed episode three a lot more than I did the other two (although I did like the Elrond/Durin scenes).

I loved the look of Númenor, although it did feel too grand to me. There seemed to be a clash between the grandeur of the wide shots of the overall city, and then the scenes at street level.

I'm reserving judgement over Pharazon and Tar-Míriel until we've seen more of them.

Elendil I really liked and am looking forward to seeing more of him.

I do like Galadriel, although the actress is rather short! She does have a Noldor aura about her, though. So far I like what they're doing with her character. One thing that has been pointed out to me that I agree with is that her reason for wanting Sauron is revenge for her brother (one presumes Finrod), rather than anything to do with the Silmarils, which doesn't sit particularly well with me.

I'm not sure what to make of Halbrand. I can't work out if he is going towards being an Aragorn-esque figure (he seems a bit rogue-ish for that) or more of a Boromir - doomed by his desire to do good. At the moment, he doesn't seem to be an inherently bad guy, but if he is going to end up being a Nazgûl, his destiny takes a big turn, presumably goaded on by Galadriel to take power, whereas at the moment he just wants a quiet life.

The Harfoots I'm really not gelling with at the moment, and as others have said, the whole idea that if anyone gets remotely injured, they get left behind seems rather harsh. I'm not finding them particularly sympathetic, even Nori is rather annoying, and their storyline is moving along incredibly slowly. In this episode, it's a while before they appear, and I must say, I wasn't missing them!

As for The Stranger, which I see no-one else has mentioned, I really don't like him. I get the horrid feeling that he's going to be Gandalf/Olórin and I really don't want him to be, because what's the point, aside from shoe-horning in someone from the previous films. Also, I don't like the idea of Olórin killing fireflies, even accidentally. Plus, he shouldn't be there anyway, timeline-wise.

I do really like the Arondir storyline and I'm looking forward to seeing more of him and the mysterious Adar, although I'm a bit disappointed to see that he's not going to be Annatar/Sauron. Still, I suppose it keeps us guessing.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Wow, Heliona, I could have written that post almost word for word!

[Heliona]

Great minds, Voronwë, great minds.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

[Eldy]

One thing that has been pointed out to me that I agree with is that her reason for wanting Sauron is revenge for her brother (one presumes Finrod), rather than anything to do with the Silmarils, which doesn't sit particularly well with me.

I was surprised that the prologue to episode one made no mention of the Silmarils, either. The show's explanation of the Wars of Beleriand is that after "Morgoth destroyed the very light of [their] home, [the Noldor] resisted. And a legion of Elves went to war." This is followed by a shot of a great fleet of ships sailing out to sea, and then a panning shot of a map from Valinor to northwest Middle-earth (but showing the Second/Third Age coastline, not Beleriand), with no mention of the Kinslaying. The removal of the Kinslaying might be a rights issue, but the Silmarils are mentioned in the second sentence of Appendix A, and even that extremely condensed account mentions that the Noldor left "against the will of the Valar." In the show, as far as can be inferred strictly from what's been presented onscreen, there was no rebellion or exile at all.

Maybe they'll fill that in later, but I'm not making any guesses at this point. From my perspective, as someone more immersed in "The Silmarillion" than The Lord of the Rings, this altruistic picture of the Noldor—brave, selfless warriors leaving their earthly paradise to bring justice to Morgoth—is one of the most surreal parts of the show's universe. They're supposed to be assholes, dammit! That's what's makes them such great, memorable characters.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Well, they did show the Elf-children (presumably Noldor since they were with Galadriel) as pretty assholic!

ETA: But as I mention in my Galadëanor thread, they seem to have sanitized Fëanor, while adding some of his worst qualities to Galadriel.

[Inanna]

That’s true they did. I was quite taken aback.

[kzer_za]

My hunch is that they rushed through the First Age because their limited rights mean they can’t go very deep with the First Age and they have to kinda skirt around the edges. Like what we got was well shot and stylized and had some nice references (I appreciated the Nirnaeth mound) but there’s so little of it that the prologue feels kind of empty and unimportant.

Or if you want to be more optimistic, maybe they’ll have more flashbacks later.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Agreed. Plus, the sanitized version of Fëanor is consistent with the few references to him in LOTR. Pretty much the only references to his character in the book are Gandalf talking about desiring to look into the palantír and "and perceive the unimaginable hand and mind of Fëanor at their work, while both the White Tree and the Golden were in flower!" and the statement in Appendix A that "Fëanor was the greatest of the Eldar in arts and lore, but also the proudest and most selfwilled." Maybe at some point they will at least hint at the "selfwilled" part.

[Frelga]

I'd have expected them to at least insert a teaser of the First Age drama, in anticipation of the rights to Silm eventually becoming available. That they didn't makes me think that this is not likely to happen in any foreseeable future.

[Stranger Wings]

One thing that has been pointed out to me that I agree with is that her reason for wanting Sauron is revenge for her brother (one presumes Finrod), rather than anything to do with the Silmarils, which doesn't sit particularly well with me.

I was surprised that the prologue to episode one made no mention of the Silmarils, either. The show's explanation of the Wars of Beleriand is that after "Morgoth destroyed the very light of [their] home, [the Noldor] resisted. And a legion of Elves went to war." This is followed by a shot of a great fleet of ships sailing out to sea, and then a panning shot of a map from Valinor to northwest Middle-earth (but showing the Second/Third Age coastline, not Beleriand), with no mention of the Kinslaying. The removal of the Kinslaying might be a rights issue, but the Silmarils are mentioned in the second sentence of Appendix A, and even that extremely condensed account mentions that the Noldor left "against the will of the Valar." In the show, as far as can be inferred strictly from what's been presented onscreen, there was no rebellion or exile at all.

Maybe they'll fill that in later, but I'm not making any guesses at this point. From my perspective, as someone more immersed in "The Silmarillion" than The Lord of the Rings, this altruistic picture of the Noldor—brave, selfless warriors leaving their earthly paradise to bring justice to Morgoth—is one of the most surreal parts of the show's universe. They're supposed to be assholes, dammit! That's what's makes them such great, memorable characters.

I strongly suspect that the line in one of the trailers, “You have been told many lies of Middle Earth” is the opening of an alternative First Age narrative of the Noldor, full of greed, of Kinslaying and Silmarils. Told either by this Adar guy, or Sauron.


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[Voronwë the Faithful]

I strongly suspect that the line in one of the trailers, “You have been told many lies of Middle Earth” is the opening of an alternative First Age narrative of the the Noldor, full of greed, of Kinslaying and Silmarils. Told either by this Adar

Or?

[Eldy]

Or?

In fact,

[Frelga]

That seems highly unlikely.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Or?

In fact,

[Stranger Wings]

I strongly suspect that the line in one of the trailers, “You have been told many lies of Middle Earth” is the opening of an alternative First Age narrative of the the Noldor, full of greed, of Kinslaying and Silmarils. Told either by this Adar

Or?

Sauron.


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