Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

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N.E. Brigand
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Re: Trump and Biden (and Pence) Classified Document Investigations

Post by N.E. Brigand »

N.E. Brigand wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:10 pm From the article:
Bratt then turned to Woodward and remarked that he did not think that Woodward was a “Trump guy” and that “he would do the right thing”, before noting that he knew Woodward had submitted an application to be a judge at the superior court in Washington DC that was currently pending, the letter said.

The allegation, in essence, is that Bratt suggested Woodward’s judicial application might be considered more favorably if he and his client cooperated against Trump. The letter was filed after Trump’s lawyers submitted a motion on Monday seeking grand jury transcripts, because of what they viewed as potential misconduct.

The justice department’s characterization of the meeting is unclear – a spokesperson declined to comment – though a more innocent explanation for the exchange could be, for instance, that Bratt was genuinely surprised to see the application and raised it as an aside.
I won't get into details, but this reminds me of something I once wrote in an email that I learned much, much later had been interpreted by the recipient to mean exactly the opposite of what I intended (and that this person told several other people about it, but none of them told me; I only discovered this misunderstanding by chance long afterward, to my horror). In this case, I suspect that Bratt's actual reason for saying this to Woodward was to emphasize that he knew Woodward was an upright person -- the sort of person who would make a fine judge -- and not the kind of lawyer who would screw over his client (Nauta) on behalf of the person who was paying him (Trump), which is a real thing that "Trump guys" do. I also suspect that Bratt was wrong about Woodward, who is probably just that kind of lawyer.
Marcy Wheeler this morning suggested something similar to what I wrote above:
This story from Stan Woodward would be way more credible if he hadn't been pushing a story for months that it was an investigative mistake not to immunize Nauta. What no one is saying is that Woodward may have let his client walk into conspiracy charges when he refused cooperation deal, all while making DOJ look more closely at things Nauta and others did.
But hey, maybe Woodward's claim will be enough for Aileen Cannon to gum up the works.
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Re: Trump and Biden (and Pence) Classified Document Investigations

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Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:10 pm I think this qualifies as a "smoking gun."
Former president Donald Trump, waving around a classified document: "I have a big pile of papers ... this is off the record ... This totally wins my case, you know. Except it is, like, highly confidential. Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this."

I think by "case," he didn't mean a legal case, but merely the dispute about whether or not he ordered an attack on Iran: the U.S. military has contingency plans for such an event, just as they do for all sorts of hypothetical situations, and apparently this document was a summary of those plans, which Trump was trying to use to argue that the military not he wanted to launch a Persian invasion. This tape was made long before Trump was subpoenaed for all the documents that hadn't been returned to the archives, and maybe even before he was asked for them. But I believe this is also a document which his lawyers have since told the Dept. of Justice is missing.
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Re: Trump and Biden (and Pence) Classified Document Investigations

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

The indictment has apparently been unsealed. It charges unlawful dissemination, not just unlawful retention.

"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: Trump and Biden (and Pence) Classified Document Investigations

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And here it is. 37 counts!!!

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Re: Trump and Biden (and Pence) Classified Document Investigations

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Strong words from Ryan Goodman.

"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
N.E. Brigand
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Re: Trump and Biden (and Pence) Classified Document Investigations

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N.E. Brigand wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:04 pm Last night I listened to a bit of Mark Levin's conservative radio talk show. Among other things, he was eager to let the public know that the Espionage Act was signed into law by a racist president, Woodrow Wilson, and that it's a law that permits questionable government overreach. The first is indisputably true and the second is certainly worth arguing. But if conservatives really believed the law was wrong, they would have said so before now.
I see Mark Levin was also on Fox last night, complaining that "President Trump is 76 years old. If the Department of Justice gets its way, he will die in federal prison." But earlier yesterday, Republicans were all talking about an FBI document that the House Oversight Committee had viewed in camera. It's a report from a source about something he was told by someone else about corruption in Ukraine and a supposed $5 million dollar payment to Joe Biden. The FBI received this information in 2020, and then-Attorney General Bill Barr assigned a U.S. Attorney look into it along with a bunch of information about Joe and Hunter Biden that had been provided by Donald Trump's attorney, Rudy Giuliani. That investigation was reportedly closed, while Barr was still A.G, although Congressional Republicans yesterday intimated that a new investigation of the matter may have been opened. Later in the day, many Republicans were claiming that the indictment against Donald Trump is only a distraction from the earlier news about Biden. We'll see if anything comes of the Biden matter. But the point is: they very much want Joe Biden to go to prison -- and he's older than Trump! Why would that be OK but this be out of bounds?

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The big lie that many, many, many Republican elected officials have been pushing for the past 18 hours is that President Biden ordered these charges to be brought.

He did not. Nor did Biden's appointees Merrick Garland and Lisa Monaco, the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General, respectively. By law, the Special Counsel, Jack Smith, acts independently of the politically-appointed leadership. He has to tell Garland when he's bringing charges, and if Garland thinks Smith is overstepping his remit in bring charges, then Garland has the right to prevent Smith from doing so -- which Garland then has to explain to Congress when the investigation closes -- but he's not allowed to direct Smith to charge anyone.
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Re: Trump and Biden (and Pence) Classified Document Investigations

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Nobody ever gets the maximum: if Donald Trump is convicted, he will not be sentenced to 100 years' imprisonment.

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Edited to add: But given how much misinformation was spread over the past day by Trump's allies, it will probably be good for people to see that number, so they can better understand how serious the charges are.

(Edited further to add: or maybe it's more than 100 years? Marcy Wheeler notes there are "31 counts of unlawful retention at 10 years a pop." If that's correct, then Donald Trump if found guilty and sentenced in 2024 to the maximum -- which, again, never happens -- wouldn't be released until 2334. But I expect that it's understood that such sentences are to be concurrent rather than consecutive.)
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Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I just finished reading the indictment. It is incredibly detailed ... and devastating.
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Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Of the 31 documents that they have charged him with unlawfully possessing, 21 of them were recovered in the August 8, 2022, search pursuant to the warrant, and the other 10 were among those returned in response to the subpoena in June 2022.

There three attorneys listed in the indictment as Attorney 1, Attorney 2, and Attorney 3. Attorney 1 is Evan Corcoran and Attorney 3 is Christina Bobb, but I don't know who Attorney 2 is.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: Trump and Biden (and Pence) Classified Document Investigations

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CNN's Kaitlan Collins says that while attorneys Jim Trusty and John Rowley attribute their departure from Donald Trump's legal team to the case moving from D.C. to Miami, the Florida angle has been known since at least Tuesday, but as recently as yesterday, Trusty and Rowley were planning to keep working for Trump.

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Here's an argument that the case outlined in the unsealed indictment is way too complicated to be tried before the 2024 election, in part because 31 documents is far more than can be declassified just for the purposes of securing a conviction (many are marked top secret, and some of them appear to be so classified that their very existence is classified) requiring the use of the silent witness rule.

And so:
And yes, that means that this case is not going to solve your political problems. If you don't like Trump, then volunteer, organize, raise money, etc. Obsessing about this case, while unavoidable, is not going to change anything about next November's election.
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Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

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Peter Strzok notes one of the photographs in the indictment:

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Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

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Jack Smith's statement.

"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Jack Smith speaks:



Full text (my transcription, so I'm at fault for any errors):
Today an indictment was unsealed charging Donald J. Trump with felony violations of our national security laws as well as participating in a conspiracy to obstruct justice. This indictment was voted by a grand jury of citizens of the Southern District of Florida, and I invite everyone to read it in full to understand the scope and the gravity of the crimes charged.

The men and women of the United States intelligence community and our armed forces dedicate their lives to protecting our nation and its people. Our laws that protect national defense information are critical to the safety and security of the United States, and they must be enforced. Violations of those laws put our country at risk. Adherence to the rule of law is a bedrock principle of the Department of Justice, and our nation's commitment to the rule of law sets an example for the world. We have one set of laws in this country, and they apply to everyone. Applying those laws, collecting facts: that's what determines the outcome of an investigation -- nothing more, nothing less.

The prosecutors in my office are among the most talented and experienced in the Department of Justice. They have investigated this case hewing to the highest ethical standards, and they will continue to do so as this case proceeds. It's very important for me to note that the defendants in this case must be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. To that end, my office will seek a speedy trial in this matter consistent with the public interest and the rights of the accused. We very much look forward to presenting our case to a jury of citizens in the Southern District of Florida.

In conclusion, I would like to thank the dedicated public servants of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, with whom my office is conducting this investigation, and who work tirelessly everyday upholding the rule of law in our country. I'm deeply proud to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with them. Thank you very much.
As he departed, a reporter asked Smith why he brought the case in Florida, but Smith didn't respond.

(Edited to note that I now see V also posted a link to Smith's speech, but after typing all that up, I'm not deleting it!)
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Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Thanks for transcribing that, N.E.B.!
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Inspired by the indictment, here's a bit of trivia for you: "A Kaleidoscope of Mathematics," the main soundtrack theme from A Beautiful Mind (2001), has become something of a standard work for drum & bugle corps and marching bands over the past decade, in large part because of this 2014 performance:

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Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Daniel Dale has a wonderfully understated way of putting things.

"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Of course it was!

"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Frelga »

Extremely unlikely to be true, considering the source, but telling. This is from 2022, to be clear.


If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Unlikely, but not impossible.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Dave_LF
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Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Dave_LF »

And, critically, we can't know for sure
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